40 sbn

[bobw]

At the SCA show in Denver this last May I found an original Winchester 40-70 SBN round and bought it. It was loaded with a 330 gr ppb and grease wad. At the front of the patch it's .397 dia. at the heel .4025" .It has a nice ogive with a typical meplat, swaged of course. Looking at pictures in the recent Heritage Auction at the old factory ammo the UMC and Sharps stuff looked about the same, There were NO pictures of factory ammo from the 1870's to 1880's loaded with greasers, this tells you all you need to know. A few years back I had the use of an original Sharps 330 gr ppb mold and made some bullets with it. It wasn't in the best shape but they were also tapered like that factory Winchester slug and feature the deep cup base with thin skirts just like that 520 gr 44-90 factory slug I bought at Denver also. Don you send me your regular e-mail address and I'll try to send you some pics to post. bobw

[Sarge]

Appreciate all the responses, lots of good info and experience. Many thanks.

Sarge

[bobw]

Sarge the 40-70 SBN has been around along time, it's one of the older Sharps rounds and it was a std chambering in the #1 Mid Range rifle thru 1876 This fact alone should tell you of the fine accuracy it is capable of. I sincerely doubt that anyone can bring it out using today's overszed chambers, 2 Fg, and greasers. bobw

[Caprock]

Sarge the 40-70 SBN has been around along time, it's one of the older Sharps rounds and it was a std chambering in the #1 Mid Range rifle thru 1876 This fact alone should tell you of the fine accuracy it is capable of. I sincerely doubt that anyone can bring it out using today's overszed chambers, 2 Fg, and greasers. bobw

Yep, and despite what Cartridges of the World says it was around far earlier than 1876. The three original chamberings for Sharps were the 40-70 sbn; 44-77; and 50-70. I wish I knew back when ordering what I know now, thats not much but its an improvement, about chambers and such. Would love to have a dedicated PP chamber for the one I have.

[Sarge]

bobw & Caprock,

Many thanks. I was puzzling over why an original chambering was not more popular like the 44-77 & 50-70 you mentioned. I see alot mentioned about the 40-70 straight, the 40-70sbn, not so much. What was the twist rate for the original rifles in 40-70 sbn? Also was the original twist rates the same for all the 40 calibers?

Sarge

[Mike]

bobw & Caprock,

Many thanks. I was puzzling over why an original chambering was not more popular like the 44-77 & 50-70 you mentioned. I see alot mentioned about the 40-70 straight, the 40-70sbn, not so much. What was the twist rate for the original rifles in 40-70 sbn? Also was the original twist rates the same for all the 40 calibers?

Sarge

Sarge, In Cartridges of the World there is a listing of cartridge data which includes rates of twists. My old edition shows a rate of twist of 18-20 inches for all of the Sharps .40 calibers, bottlenecked or straight. I'm not saying that's a fact, only what is listed therein. (They do seem to have trouble with dates in that book, maybe ROTs too.) And all of this talk, where I'm listening a lot more than talking, has me interested in trying a .40/70 BN again. Shoot sharp, Mike

[bobw]

18-20 I'd say is probably correct, Mine is 1 in 18. I won't say 400 gr bullets weren't used back then but not like the 400+ gr ones used today which mandate a 1 in 16 as well as tighter twists. Both the 40-70SBN and the 40-700ss Utilized the same 330 ppb as a std factory load from what I've seen. A 370 gr ppb was std in the 40-90 SBN and was reputed to be a much better killer on buffalo. If a guy has a 40-70 SBN with one of today's chamber that is large enuf to seat a .408" groove dia greaser in it ,all is not lost. FL size the 1 st loading to fire form the case. After that just deprime, clean ,dry, reprime, Make sure the inside of the neck is clean and shiny, charge with Fg thru a drop tube Half the way up the neck, insert a hard card and compress the load to the neck/shoulder juncture no deeper. Lube wad, another card wad at this point put the assembled rd in your press and screw in a 40 S&W tungsten carbide sizer die and size down the neck to hold your .399/.400" patched bullet. That's right your patching to bore dia . I have had zero good results trying to patch to groove with my rifle in this 40-70 bn config. bobw ???????

[Mike]

In case anybody is shopping, there is a set of RCBS dies for the .40/70 BN on eBay right now, so far just under $50. Shoot sharp, Mike

[Sarge]

bobw,
You have a pm.
Sarge

[Caprock]

Check on those dies cause Shiloh chambers are a tad different than the original Sharps, Remington, and others I think. At any rate BACO designates different brass, mainly of headspace dimensions and RCBS sells dies for both Shiloh and C. Sharps versions.