Tolloffson rifle

[Kurt]

With the talk of the Tolloffson Rifle and Don shooting hid bull barreled rifle sort of sparked me up to dig out my wagon axle 18# .44-100 Rem straight Shiloh Rough Rider I haven't shot for several years and a box of mismatched left over rounds of some left over test rounds.
I been thinking pulling the 1.300" X 35" round barrel off and turning it down and shorten it to a 30" maybe 32" but after getting the sights to hit center I put 6 rounds down range and looking through the spotting scope I had to go down range to get a better look. This might be a big mistake to pull the barrel and lighten this rifle. Those 6 rounds just filled the 3" X ring at 200 yards with a nice cluster of 1-7/8" with all but 2 cutting. This was with a load of 90 grains of 3F OE and a 507 grain PP elliptical from the KAL mould and a CCI 200 LR primer.
The last time I shot this rifle was at the Quigley but I don't know if I used the 3F OE load, if I didn't I should have
This rifle always has shot very well and rids the cross sticks very good.
I also emptied some rounds loaded with the same 90 grains weight with 1.5 Swiss and some with 95 grains of the 1.5 swiss that opened the groups about 4". One thing I will say that heavy rifle sure is a pleasure shooting with it's low felt recoil and a straight push back with out the barrel jumping.
I might just re consider changing the barrel dimensions and put up with it tipping the gun cart over backwards

[Fogman01]

I think the original Tolloffson rifle was 34"? If it shoots that well maybe leave it alone. Maybe put some braces on the cart so it doesn't tip over. I am in the process of getting an MVA scope on my Shiloh 45-110 16# bull barrel for shooting in a Tolloffson class sometime. I would like to see what it will do at 1000 yards. It would be interesting if all us with bull barrel rifles could show up together somewhere with Kenny Wasserburger and actually have a Tolloffson class shoot.

[Don McDowell]

I agree Fogman, let's drag those Tollefson guns out and get to work.

[Kurt]

When I had this rifle build it was not intended for the Tolloffson competition I intended using it for the Gong shoots. I wanted a rifle that would hold the cross sticks with a round barrel that holds the muzzle jump down and I wanted it in the white to reflect the sun more keeping the barrel heat down and a 17 ROT to stabilize the longer .44 caliber bullets. I wanted to use a .432 unpatched bullet to reduce drag and a very shallow grooved barrel .003" deep on the line of a lot of the old black powder cartridge rifles used. I ordered the barrel from Krieger and I designed the reamer just for a PP only and the way it turned out everything came together to be a fine shooter.
Before I even started developing a load for this rifle I just stuffed the cases full of powder I didn't like, like the diamond back scheutzen and a couple others I just put in a coffee can and blended then the best I could ran the .45-2.6 cases through the matching die I had made for the sizing die and just loaded a undersized bullet so I could shoot with out fouling control to blow out the cases to fit the chamber. I shot some ware between 80 and 90 rounds with out fouling control except a blow down the hot barrel once in a while and all bet 3 or 4 stayed inside 4" at 200 yards. I think the shallow grooves has a lot of play in this as well as the throat the chamber has.
When I started load development I started here at home on my 138 yard range to get a starting place to go to the 200 yard range and I could have done hand stands when I saw the first results. That target below was it. I had the MVA 3000 series scope on the rifle for load work.
I never have done load work on paper at 800 to 1000 yards to see how it really holds up at those ranges.
Well this post is getting a little long but these forums have been quiet.
   

[Don McDowell]

I like the way the heavy gun just goes to sleep in the sticks, and it sure tames the recoil. This 16 lb barrel also holds quite well offhand. I plan to run it for both days of Alliance, and will take it to Worland. If there's another one or two there that would be great.
I'm thinking a 16 lb 17 twist 44-77 might just be the ultimate bptr rifle.

[Kurt]

Don, I have .44's in 16, 17 and 19 ROT and I think the 17 is the way to go. I have a reamer print drawn up for a PP .44-77 with this caliber in mind.

[Don McDowell]

I think the 17 is the best route. It would take long bullets and short ones as well. The 19 works, but you have to keep the bullets shorter than 1.3 for consistent shooting past 800

[Kurt]

For the 19 twist .44-77 I use a 485 gr. I would have to measure it again but I think it's 1.325" or a smidge more. For the 19 twist .44-90/2-5/8 BN I use a 520 gr of the original profile and length and It did very well at the MT 1000 one year.

[Don McDowell]

The bullets over 1.3 will work in the 19 twist, but they won't do it consistently. Bringing the length down to 1.3 and then things start to look much better more consistently at 800 and beyond.
What would be great if Kirk could be talked into building a heavy 44 barrel with something faster than the 19 twist and chambering it with his 44-77 reamer with the 7 degree leed built in.

[Kurt]

When I wanted the 17 twist I talked to Kirk about it he said I don't get to many orders for a .44 and the expense getting a button and time changing gears I would have to have a increase in cost to get a return. I can see what he was saying so I asked if I could furnish a quality barrel and the reamer for the .44-100 Rem chamber with a 4 /1.5 compound throat that was in close line cloned from originals. I have a couple chamber casts from the Sharps .44-77 and the .44-90 bn as well as a chamber cast from a Remington used for the Creedmoor matches and all of the Sharps had a 3 degree from what PT&G and Manson measured and the grooves were very shallow at .003". The Rem was a 5 degree straight from the case mouth chamber wall to the top of the lands. He used my reamer for the 19 twist .44-90 bn and for the 17 twist .44-100 Straight. He did charge me extra for using my reamers for the setup cost but I got what I wanted.
The slow and faster twists both have a place depending what one wants to use it for or if one is just interested being period correct, something I'm not I want what works for my intentions game or target.