Time to continue load development with my .44-77.

[Distant Thunder]

I was a beautiful March day with the temperature reaching 58 degrees and full sunshine. Unfortunately by the time I got around to shooting the wind was screwing around and very unpredictable.

The plan was to shoot my Shiloh .44-77 with to different length bullets from my Brooks adjustable, 1.340" and 1.400". The load other than the bullet was the same, 82 grains of Swiss 1 1/2 (lot #18-01-2021) with a .060 LDPE wad seated on top of the powder and a .060 HDPE wad on top of that. This was loaded in BACO brass with Remington 2 1/2 LP primers.

I set up two targets at 220 yards. With the temp at 48 degrees and a light wind coming from 10 o'clock with switches to 2 o'clock and back I started with the 1.340" bullets. I quickly found that catching the wind at 11 o'clock was not easy and it was clearly picking up to 15 mph without much warning and then dropping back to 7 or 8 mph just as quickly.

It wasn't going very well when the lower right corner of the target came loose and started flapping in the wind. After shot #6 the upper right let loose forcing me to stop and do a target repair. After returning from the target, 220 yards down and 220 yards back, I rested a couple of minutes and loaded and shot #7, the lowest in the group which was followed by #8 which was so high it was even in the group. I never did determine where #9 went. It had to have doubled somewhere but I haven't a clue where. There were no other holes in the new 3 foot by 4 foot cardboard.

After those 10 shots I turned to the 1.400" long bullet and had another annoying high right first shots that have been showing up more than I can account for. As the group formed I could see that #1 was likely the wind and the group was looking good shot #7 which went 2 inches high. #8 was back in the group, but number #9 was 3 high! #10 while in the group ok was the lowest shot of all.

I had started using the second wad, the HDPE one, because the mold came with a cupped base and loading it like that it was shooting fairly well. So when Brooks made the flat base plug for me I decided to start with the load that had bee working with the cupped base bullet. Even considering the wind I don't see where the high shots came from. I think it's time to take out that second wad and use just the one LDPE wad. maybe up the powder charge some to keep the same seating depth and compression.

[Don McDowell]

You might want to come off that powder charge 2 grains
Also may want to think about either a single wad cut from the thick river cork gasket material from Napa
Or a t
030 fiber wad and a thin felt
With the felt between the fiber wad and the bullet

[Distant Thunder]

Don,

Thank you. I think the wad is the first place to start. Something is causing a few wild outliers and I need to fix that before I worry about the core group size, which isn't bad at this point.

We.ve got 4 days of bad weather coming starting today and then some cold weather. At the first break in the weather I'll start moving machines and after that I need to get back on this .44. I would be happy for now with consistent 10-shot groups around 3 inches. I can work that down through the summer at matches, but these wild, unexplained shots I would accept.

Oddly, I didn't have the wild shots with the cupped base and the same wad setup. I picked up one of those bullets yesterday that had been slowed by the snow but still hit the ground. It is bent at the nose but the rifling goes right to the top edge of the patch and the cupped base looks really good with clear impressions of the fold over even into the cup.

You should be shooting in Arizona today, right?

[Don McDowell]

Jim what I’m finding with the dual diameter bullets they need to be treated more like a greaser

[Kurt]

Jim,

Can you get a good beat on that target? If I was looking at it all I would see is a white sheet of paper I have to use those 2" orange stickers so I can see.

I load 85 gr of 1.5 Swiss and 81 gr of 2F OE and use a OJ carton wad plus a .04" plastic ice cream bucket wad for my wad stack.
When I finish with my Hepburn it will be time to pull out the .44-77. I still have a bunch of shells left over from the Quigley that need to be shot that were intended for the Baker shoot but had to bypass it because of the eye damage.
I wish I lived closed to you, I think it would be fun to work with these rifles together. I seldom see any smoke on our range anymore.

[Kurt]

Jim,

I just went through some of my ladder load test targets for the .17 twist .44-77 Farmer and I get those unexplained flyers also but they start to disappear with the heavier loads but I mostly use the OE powder in 1.5F and 2F.
I don't have any saved using the Sharps profile cast with the Brooks adjustable mould. Most of my records are with the Sage mould and the KAL Gibbs.
It seems like from what I have worked with this 17 twist .44-77 it performs best with the longer bullets like the Sage and the Gibbs. The Gibbs is 1.460" long and the Sage is 1.457". Using these heavier bullets my verticals shrunk in my rifle.

Forgot to mention,
The right target has two different bullets. The left string was shot with the Sage and the right with a BA bullet.

[Distant Thunder]

Don,

Yes, I agree with your assessment of loading 2-D bullets. I do have one 2-D .44 PPB, but I prefer the straight bore diameter bullets in this .44 cartridge because it gives me more flexibility in the seating deep.

In my .40-65 I load the 2-D PPB the same as I would a groove bullet, I seat it to be against the rifling and that works well for me.

[Distant Thunder]

Kurt,

I'm using a 6X scope on this rifle and I have no plans to use irons. I can put the crosshairs between the black squares and have a good sight picture. That aim point is 10 inches from my point of impact in the center of the blank sheets of paper. I have only the one aiming point up on the big peace of cardboard and can have several blank sheets of paper that I just dial over to the center of. I can see the bullets very easily in the white, except the doubles, and I don't have to keep running back and forth with more targets.

If I think of it I'll take a picture of the setup next time out.

I'm sure if we where closer to each other we could have some very productive days at the range making smoke.

It's just my bad luck to have gotten this .44-77 in the hopper the year covid hit. In the last two years I haven't even gotten in a full season of match shooting with it. If it was a challenge I was after then I sure got it with this rifle and I'm enjoying the heck out of it. If it takes me a little time to get it shooting that's fine with me.

[Distant Thunder]

After all the ice and wet heavy snow we got this week today didn't look too bad for shooting. The wind early was light and steady straight out of the north. So I set up 5 targets to test the 5 loads I had put together.

It was very clear to me that the 2 wads I was using under this new brooks bullet with the cupped base was not even working with the flat base version of the same bullet. Time to scrap that idea and go back to what was working with other flat base bullet in this rifle.

Today I tested 5 different bullets all over the same load:

85.0 grains of Swiss 1 1/2 from my new lot (#18-01-2021), with one .060" LDPE wad compressing .050-.060" or approximately .150" deep in the BACO cases primed with Remington 2 1/2 large pistol primers.

The 5 bullets were as follows:

1) My new Brooks nose pour adjustable set at 1.350" long and weighing 485 grains.
2) My BACO nose pour adjustable .434" diameter set at 1.350" long weighing 485 grains.
3) My new Brooks nose pour adjustable set at 1.400" long weighing 505 grains.
4) Kurt's Sage bullet at 1.454" long weighing 510 grains. This bullet has shot very well in this rifle in the past.
5) My BACO JIM430520 cut to .433" diameter weighing 520 grains. This is very close to the old Metford design.

All these bullets were wrapped with Staedtler .0015" tracing paper. Similar to Seth Cole 55W.

There was a slight 10 o'clock component to the wind as I began shooting and by the last target the wind had switched to 10 o'clock and was pushing my last 3 shots to the right. I did manage to get some good groups with 4 of the bullets and very good with 3 of them.

Now I'll have to decide where to go next. This 85 grain load was pretty easy shooting and I don't really want to increase the powder charge much if any.

There is not much point in developing a good load with Kurt's bullet unless I make him an offer he can't refuse on that mold!
So that leaves the Brooks bullet which I could adjust to the 1.450" length, the Baco Adj. bullet which I could try a longer version of and the Metford from BACO.

I will probably repeat the test with everything the same using the Brooks bullet at 1.400", the Metford and the Baco Adj. at a longer length and see what repeats. I should have a few options to try at matches this year. The new Swiss 1 1/2 seems to shoot very well with little compression and it seem my .44-77 like less compression too. The fouling was much lighter than what I have seen with other lots and more compression.

Once I get a few loads/bullets that are working I'll set up my chronograph and see where I am velocity wise. By June I should be ready to test these bullets at matches and see how it goes.

I'm pretty sure I'll have to split these targets up into 2 posts so stay tuned friends!

[Distant Thunder]

And the last two targets from today.

The last 3 shots on the last target were high and mostly right from the wind picking up and I didn't want to turn on the knobs. Still a good group.