+- Historic Shooting Forums (http://historicshooting.com)
+-- Forum: General (http://historicshooting.com/forum-1.html)
+--- Forum: Reloading (http://historicshooting.com/forum-4.html)
+---- Forum: Paper Patch (http://historicshooting.com/forum-41.html)
+---- Thread: Development of PP loads for the .44-77. (/thread-3010.html)
RE: Development of PP loads for the .44-77. - Distant Thunder - 06-30-2020
Hiwall55,
I checked the bore of my Krieger barrel today and a .4378" gage pin fit very close and pushed through as smooth as silk. I would say it is very close to .4380-.4382". I'm very happy with the barrel compared to my Green Mountain .44 caliber which has a .436" bore diameter. When I asked GM about that I was told that their ".44 caliber barrels run on the tight side".
RE: Development of PP loads for the .44-77. - Kurt - 06-30-2020
I could put up with a .436" bore but not along with a .446 groove. .436"/.446"
RE: Development of PP loads for the .44-77. - Distant Thunder - 06-30-2020
Kurt,
It's probably, as close as I can measure, .4365" on the bore diameter and .4455" groove diameter. I plan to sell the GM barrel because I don't need a 3rd .44 caliber barrel and I have a Badger that is .438/.446" and is an 18-twist that I have plans for. Maybe a.44-70?
RE: Development of PP loads for the .44-77. - seahawk - 07-01-2020
(06-30-2020, 09:10 PM)Distant Thunder Wrote: Kurt,good morning jim,
It's probably, as close as I can measure, .4365" on the bore diameter and .4455" groove diameter. I plan to sell the GM barrel because I don't need a 3rd .44 caliber barrel and I have a Badger that is .438/.446" and is an 18-twist that I have plans for. Maybe a.44-70?
haven't chatted with you in a long while,...following your posts and have gotten the bug for a 44-77,..im sure you are not surprised,..i see you plan on selling the gm barrel,...let me know the particulars and price
thanks
chuck pizzitola
RE: Development of PP loads for the .44-77. - Distant Thunder - 07-01-2020
This thread will include the good, the bad and the ugly! Even my missteps should there be and there will!
The first thing I learned, and it's important, is that the .44-77 is NOT a .45-70! All my development of paper patch bullets for my other rifles began with cases that were already fireformed from shooting grease groove bullets. Even then any load development I did with gg bullets using new brass was in the .45-70 and it worked out pretty well.
With the .44-77 the cases as they come from JBA or BACO are so radically different from the fireform cases that any load development most be kept separate. I can see that now.
I fireformed 100 JBA cases using a light gg bullet and a light charge of smokeless powder. Now I will fireform 100 BACO reformed .50-110 cases and then I will be ready to start my load development for real.
I am thinking also that I have enough information to start working with a 2-D PPB now. I pretty close to ordering one form BACO. I need to call and talk to them first. I will probably place that order next week.
RE: Development of PP loads for the .44-77. - Kurt - 07-01-2020
Well Jim, when you have new cases for a straight walled chamber what are you firefobming? nothing.
When you take a straight walled basic case and run it through a die swaging a shoulder on that straight walled case that goes not get the transition taper p[roperly then you are firefobming the case blowing out the shoulders of the bottle necked case.
Than when this has been done then the load development starts.
With new straight walled that are like a resized case when you get them new chances are they will shoot very accurately and your not forming anything
RE: Development of PP loads for the .44-77. - Distant Thunder - 07-01-2020
Kurt,
This is one of the things I have come to understand. They have to fireformed to the wildcat chamber before best accuracy can be achieved.
The .44-77 is almost like working with a wildcat and forming brass for some standard case.
And now I've run into to a bit of a snag with the BACO cases that are reformed from .50-110. They look really nice and will be very good cases, but the necks seem just a tad thick. With a .4465" bullet there's no way a round will chamber. So these I will have to fire form with an undersize bullet, paper patch.
I am heating up a pot of lead now and will cast 100+ at 1.030" long and seat those on the smallest charge of BP I can load. Just when I thought I had my fireforming all figured out, NOT!
It's a good a thing I'm a guy enjoys the process and a good challenge! I would not suggest this cartridge for the beginner. Get a .45-70 and just load and shoot, repeat.
Not to worry I'll get there and all of this is the number 2 reason why I wanted a .44-77. Number one was, It's sooooooo cool!
RE: Development of PP loads for the .44-77. - Kurt - 07-01-2020
There is no short cut when working with cases not made for the chamber. Just like taking a 303 and making a .40 caliber out of it or taking .44 basic that is around .516" and necking it down. It takes a shot or two to form the shoulder. I worked with 900 plus .44 basic and turned them into .44-90bn's and the best way I found to do this job was casting GG with a ogive that will let me shoot dirty or a PP patched .004" under bore as well as the corn meal bullets but they did not build up enough pressure with just one shot fired. The GG I could go through 100 rounds with load and fire--load and fire. I would have to stop to let the barrel cool now and then but in a short time I had 200 formed with just one shot fired. Annealing the case shoulders plus 1/2 way down the case did the job without a hitch. The only thing doing it the way I did it was mining out the lead when I got home but the cases looked like they have been shot several times and all they needed was the final trimming for length.
You can salvage the fired bullets if you keep the target in one spot and dig pout the dirt and use a 1/4" screen and sift the bullets out and remelt then into ingots. All you loose is the powder.
The ground up your way is mostly sand and this will make the job a lot easier.
RE: Development of PP loads for the .44-77. - Distant Thunder - 07-01-2020
I sift the lead out of my 200m berm just about every year. I set it up so I could do that. I even buried a 1/2 steel plate about a foot or so back in the berm to minimize the penetration.
Yes, up here whatever isn't ledge rock is pretty much sand or clay.
I cast up 100 PPB at 1.03", they weigh 355 grains. I will old these as deep as is practical over miscellaneous BP and fireform these last 100 cases. I may still have to deal with the necks, but maybe not have to for PPB.
RE: Development of PP loads for the .44-77. - Kurt - 07-01-2020
The plate is a good idea. I filled a 50 gallon barrel with mason sand and laid it in the berm and shot into it for several years through 1/4" ply wood covering the opening that worked well. Found large chunks of lead that got packed together
but a bullet trap is the way to go for a home range. I made one using boiler plate welded to a 8" pipe with a 1" slit cut in it so when it hit the plate it deflected through the slit and spun in the pipe. Had a clean out door on both ends so I could push the lead out into a 5 gallon bucket. That reclaims all even the lead dust.