![]() |
|
Designing the 2-diameter paper patch bullet. - Printable Version +- Historic Shooting Forums (http://historicshooting.com) +-- Forum: General (http://historicshooting.com/forum-1.html) +--- Forum: Reloading (http://historicshooting.com/forum-4.html) +---- Forum: Paper Patch (http://historicshooting.com/forum-41.html) +---- Thread: Designing the 2-diameter paper patch bullet. (/thread-2619.html) |
RE: Designing the 2-diameter paper patch bullet. - mherth - 05-05-2019 (05-05-2019, 09:38 AM)Distant Thunder Wrote: Well obviously this thread has been just sitting here for the past 3 months, but there have bee some developments of interest with the DDPPB in .45 caliber. Jim, what do you consider a good bullet length for a 1 in 16 ROT IN 45-70? Mike RE: Designing the 2-diameter paper patch bullet. - Distant Thunder - 05-05-2019 Mike, I have absolutely zero experience with 16-wist .45 caliber other than what I've seen other shooters do with theirs. I have always stayed with the 18-twist because it is what I know and it has worked well for me. When I was trying to decide what length to go with in my 18-twist .40-65 I ran the numbers using several different formulas and came up with a range of results. Because that is my silhouette rifle and would likely only be shot out to 600 yards I chose a length a bit higher in the range to get a maximum weight for the rams, but not push it to the high end and run into stability problems. I settled on 1.250" OAL and it has worked very well out to 600 yards just as I had hoped. You could do the same thing for a 16-twist .45. Run the numbers using the different formulas and if you're going to shoot out to 1000 yards just stay toward the lower end of the numbers you find. I don't think that weight is all that big of a deal, within reason, that is to say as I would gladly give up some weight in favor of stability. We all want to shoot a 545 grain bullet and I know that, but if that heavy bullet is only marginally stable it is going to struggle when the winds get nasty. I would much rather shoot a 520 grain bullet that is well stabilized so it doesn't go all wobbly when it gets hit on the nose by a quartering headwind or bumped in the butt by a tailwind. A very important thing to note is that the optimal length, as I call it, is somewhat dependent on the nose profile. A bullet that is more blunt with a shorter ogive can be a little longer than one that is more sharply pointed with a long ogive. My .45 caliber bullet has an ogive that is almost one half the OAL. While it is an elliptical form I like cap the nose with a radius that is approximately 1/3 caliber. Arnie's bullet is similar but the radius is closer to 1/4 caliber. He and I both believe this makes the bullet preform better at transonic velocities and it helps increase the weight without making the bullet longer. I believe I've said it before but let me repeat that I am not a ballistic expert. My opinions are base on my experiences from 20+ years of shooting long range matches. For most of that time I have machined my own bullet molds and tested everything I've read and heard that seemed reasonable. The bullet I use now and for the past few years is the result of what I have learned. While it has worked very well in two of my rifles it has not worked as well in other rifles apparently. I have made a few other molds of the same design for other people and their results were not as good or they never really worked with the bullets enough to know for sure. I don't really know which is the case. I'm sure others would like to know what length you find would be optimal for your 16-twist so please let us know what you come up with. RE: Designing the 2-diameter paper patch bullet. - Don McDowell - 05-05-2019 I hadn't been able to do any shooting since early February, but did run the dual diameter bullet in the 40-70 during practice day at Alliance on Thursday. I was really happy with how that bullet held up out to 960 yards. I was wanting to shoot that rifle and load in the Buffalo match today, but glad I didn't try it with the switching winds. I have a midrange sight on that rifle and it was topped out to get to that 960 yard bear, but it did hold good elevation in relatively good conditions Thursday, but only about 2 inches into the bottom of the target. RE: Designing the 2-diameter paper patch bullet. - Distant Thunder - 05-06-2019 Don, I'm not surprised your .40 is holding way out there. That design held up well for me in my 18-twist .40-65 out to 600 and that bullet only weighs 382 grains. It is a good design and really it is an old design. You should put a log range sight on that and see what it can do at 1000. I have shot mine at silhouette ranges in some pretty nasty winds and it held up well enough to win scope class. Moving to paper patch has really made my .40-65 shine. That bullet in my rifle and Arnie's elliptical DDEPP in his .40-65 are the reason I wanted to get more information out there on the duel diameter paper patch bullets, they work very well. It's good to hear it working for you too. RE: Designing the 2-diameter paper patch bullet. - Don McDowell - 05-06-2019 I'm really happy with this bullet. It shot better at 600 when we tested it last January than anything ever has in this rifle. Need to find some time to load some of them in the 40-90 bn and see how they do compared to the money bullet that rifle likes so well The dual diameter bullet has been working well for several years in the 44's. My CPA and Borchardt both really like the dd 45 bullet , but my Shiloh 45-70 not so much. I've been using 7 lb paper on bullets that are closer to or at bore diameter before wrapping and getting really good results, so I'm thinking to wrap some of those 45's in that 55y paper and giving them another run in the Shiloh. Good luck at Lodi, Eddie and I were commiserating this weekend at Alliance about neither one of us being able to squeeze it into the schedule this time. RE: Designing the 2-diameter paper patch bullet. - Gunlaker - 05-06-2019 Jim do you have a part number for that new BACO mold? It would be interesting to see how well it works in one of my Shiloh Sharps rifles, compared to my rifles with Dan T.'s bore diameter PP chambers. thanks, Chris. RE: Designing the 2-diameter paper patch bullet. - Don McDowell - 05-06-2019 https://www.buffaloarms.com/453-545-grain-paper-patch-bullet-mould-flat-base-elliptical-1-cavity-jim453545e RE: Designing the 2-diameter paper patch bullet. - Gunlaker - 05-06-2019 Thanks Don. RE: Designing the 2-diameter paper patch bullet. - Distant Thunder - 05-06-2019 Chris, I sure do! They offer it in two sizes and they list it by the base diameter, which is the wrong way to list it IMO. Sku: JIM453545E is the .443" diameter version, that's the as cast diameter of the bore diameter section. It should patch with 9# (.002" thick) paper to .450". Then the JIM455545E is the .445" diameter version and I believe it should patch up nicely with Seth Cole 55W, but I would have to check my notes on that paper to be sure. Those using 55W should know what it adds. I have used it some but not enough to have the numbers committed to my aging memory! Ideally the bore diameter section would patch to a snug fit in the bore of your rifle and the base diameter would patch to a snug fit in your fired and unsized cases. You could easily size the base after patching to suit, but sizing the bore diameter is much more complicated. I would like to see how this bullet would shoot in my Shiloh .45-90. I think it would be a perfect bullet for that rifle and it's standard grease groove chamber. That project is on my list of things to due, some day! Oh, the bad news is both sizes are out of stock and the demand will probably fairly high for a time. So you may have to wait to get one. RE: Designing the 2-diameter paper patch bullet. - Don McDowell - 05-06-2019 Jim unless they have a set of blocks in stock they always show out of stock, but if a person calls and orders an out of stock mould, they'll usually send it in about 2 weeks. I think they do it that way so they don't tie up a bunch of blocks on bullets that aren't selling well. |