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+--- Thread: Another rifle bits the dust using smokeless (/thread-1740.html)
RE: Another rifle bits the dust using smokeless - Fogman01 - 01-31-2016
My concern is also with the shooters that would be on the line with him or some other moron with a smokeless pipe bomb. Shooters around him could suffer too. That's why I feel the matches should be for BP ONLY and if smokeless users want to shoot it should be a separate match or a separate relay and stay away from the BP shooters who know better. I am not surprised this happened considering some of the stuff I have read on "forums". I do not mean Shiloh Forum or this forum. There are some forums out there that have some pretty ignorant people bragging about what they are doing with re-loads. Sheesh
Good post, Kurt!
RE: Another rifle bits the dust using smokeless - Ironramrod - 01-31-2016
My 49th edition of Lyman reloading manual shows a max. load of 37 gr. of 5744 in a .45/70 and a 500 gr. bullet. The same max load is listed for a 475 gr. bullet. Those loads are listed for Ruger #1 and #3 rifles, but this rifle looks (or looked) like a highwall to me.
Regards
RE: Another rifle bits the dust using smokeless - Kurt - 01-31-2016
Fogman I read a lot of posts people post that seems very important to them to get all the velocity they can get. I read one that claimed getting .458 Win velocity's shooting his Cimarron sharps.
RE: Another rifle bits the dust using smokeless - Kurt - 02-01-2016
I don't know from looking at that rifle if it's a low wall or high wall with out the block in place.
Looks to me the wall cones up to fast with very little frame behind the block on top.
here is a high wall
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Winchester+High+Wall&view=detailv2&&id=EE93F74109EC1A5524492A55AEC6B107CDF92A6E&selectedIndex=3&ccid=CrcgkDVJ&simid=607997138953699381&thid=OIP.M0ab72090354956d666b0be1e29f01d1eH0&ajaxhist=0
and here is a low wall.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Winchester+1885+Low+Wall+Rifle&view=detailv2&&id=D6B0456D7A23C86501B2F82DC61DB89B902E0049&selectedIndex=4&ccid=HYvDpIwA&simid=608045186766996982&thid=OIP.M1d8bc3a48c00897333230661a5fcd8ebo0&ajaxhist=0
RE: Another rifle bits the dust using smokeless - Mike - 02-01-2016
In what we can call the "exploded view," the block is still just about where it should be with the "wall" blown out on the left side. That "wall" is high behind the block. And when the wall slopes down to the tang, it is much steeper than what is found on a low-wall. However, highwall or low-wall doesn't make much difference now... Shoot sharp, Mike
RE: Another rifle bits the dust using smokeless - Fogman01 - 02-01-2016
Kurt,
Before I got interested in BPCRs, I was shooting big bore handguns where I learned big slow bullets kill by momentum and a flat nose's wide wound channel not velocity. That experience prepared me to accept the difference between BP and smokeless and appreciate BP loads.
Too many people think velocity is the only measure of an effective load so they pack them full of smokeless. If Hornady's "HITS Criterion" means anything (not sure it does) it shows a 50-90 with a 600 grain bullet going 1300 FPS has about the same HITS value as a 375 H&H 300 grain bullet going twice as fast. I'll shoot my 50-90 any day before I shoot my .375! It killed my buffalo just fine.
RE: Another rifle bits the dust using smokeless - Rick Mulhern - 02-01-2016
"Life is tough! It's even tougher if you're stupid!"
John Wayne
RE: Another rifle bits the dust using smokeless - Kenny Wasserburger - 02-05-2016
That's a Highwall, no way it is a Sharps.
And most folks run 26-27 grs of 5744...close to a double charge........the guy is an idiot for not checking data.
kW
RE: Another rifle bits the dust using smokeless - Gussy - 02-06-2016
Just shows taking "advise" from another shooter (who may be an idiot) doesn't pay.
RE: Another rifle bits the dust using smokeless - ireload2 - 04-24-2018
Well you are telling a story that is now hearsay - 3 people away from the loading process.
The Pedersoli Hiwall actions are manufactured by Uberti and are chambered in .348 and .405 Win so they are definitely designed for smokeless.
My observations of these kind of blowups is they often are associated with people who have been kept alive only because they are use to reloading black powder. These folks are not very sophisticated reloaders since they are use to propellants that have to fill the case.
Anyone that has done even the slightest bit of research would understand that 50 gr of 5744 is about 25 grains over the load (yes a double charge) required to produce BP pressures and velocities in a 45-70. I have been shooting the 45-70 with smokeless since 1972 without one bit of trouble. But everyone of my loads were based on data from multiple reliable resources that had been sanity checked for agreement with each other. Hearsay loading data is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard of.