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Money Bullet Recommendation - laowho - 01-02-2016
Hi Guys,
This will be my last mould for at least a year (I swear) for my Shiloh 45-70, but another fella's been pesterin me and swears by them. Been readin over @ Shiloh, esp'ly Kenny W's "Recent trends" thread wh/ treats of new rule against duplexing, and a few there (Kenny included) highly recommend the money bullet to help keep the 45-70 competitive out to 1k. Here's my uneducated preference,
http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=929183&CAT=4157
.458" 530 Grain "Money" Mini-Grease Groove 1-Cavity Cast Bullet Mould Reduced First Band:
"This is a "Money" design bullet originally designed by Dan Theodore. This particular mould is of the mini grease groove style made to be used when wiping between shots only. The mini grease groove helps make this bullet even more streamline in shape for flatter trajectory. 1.450" long with nose length of .755", the nose diameter .449", first driving band .450", tapered second driving band.
Designed for firearms with short throats. John V. wanted this for his new Shiloh Sharps rifle."
Two reduced bands instead of one for deeper lands contact and more stability...more powder room...Dan T design...and that it was designed specifically for a Shiloh Sharps (and in .458 so don't have to size it), and figure he mita kept in mind the spin, etc. Just wonderin what's popular/proven, and whether there are considerations I'm missin. Is it heavy enuf? Thx, Doug
RE: Money Bullet Recommendation - Gunlaker - 01-02-2016
Doug, this link is a report by Dan that is worth reading. I believe that the bullets in the document is the original Money bullet:
http://www.bpcr.net/site_docs-results_schedules/documents/2006_Quigley_Winner_Report_by_Dan_Theodore.htm
Interestingly none of the bullets sold by Buffalo Arms is quite the same. The noses are a little slimmer, but more interesting to me is that the driving band diameters are different. Even the one that BACO calls "Keith Lay's Special Bullet" ( JM460535M5 ) seems to be different than Dan's designs.
With that said, the BACO Money 459535M1 cast in 20:1 flies well when shot from my Shiloh. But I have only shot it at silhouette distances (500m). Reduced driving bands will allow more powder. I have been thinking of giving that JM460535M5 a try though...
I don't think there is ever a last bullet mold. :-)
Chris.
RE: Money Bullet Recommendation - Don McDowell - 01-02-2016
http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=160242&CAT=4157
This bullet cast from 16-1 ,lubed with Bullshops Nasa lube , set in a case primed with a 9 1/5 remington primer ,charged with 69 grs. of Eysnford 2f and a .060 fiber wad , will do it all from the 200 yd line to the 1000.
RE: Money Bullet Recommendation - laowho - 01-03-2016
Thank you Don. Would I have to size it down to .458 for my .457 groove dia.? Or is .002 over just fine provided I can seat it? Very much appreciated. And Bullshops Nasa lube--didn't know about this. Thanks
RE: Money Bullet Recommendation - Don McDowell - 01-03-2016
It'll be fine as cast from 16-1 if you cast it at 775. Sizing to .458 won't hurt anything.
RE: Money Bullet Recommendation - laowho - 01-03-2016
Done. The other fella has been askin, "What does Don like?" so I'll pass it on too.
RE: Money Bullet Recommendation - Don McDowell - 01-03-2016
Truth be told Don likes a lot of bullets, but if forced to shoot a greaser for all eternity could get by just fine with his Lyman postell blocks, or the saeco 645 except it's to light to use at the nationals.
RE: Money Bullet Recommendation - laowho - 01-03-2016
Thanks Gunlaker, I hadn't seen yer post cuz it was late and maybe cuz my keyboard has a wonky jumpy sidebar/cursor. Well this adds a new wrinkle, and I'm goin straight to the article. Curious that you've only shot yers out to 500.
Yes Don, have those 2 as well, and the Saeco kicked my butt yesterday. Made me get up and shake it off. Maybe there was some extra powder in it, and some extra compression. Still wonderin tho what the Saeco's big brother 745 can do.
RE: Money Bullet Recommendation - laowho - 01-03-2016
Well Gunlaker, I'll give it another read but here's sumthin that had escaped me:
"For those of you interested, below is a diagram of Doc's bullet. It should be noted that the bore-riding section MUST be at barrel-bore-diameter at the chamber end of the barrel, not muzzle end. This is important due to the long nose ogive (unsupported nose.) Testing has shown that if the bore-riding section's diameter is too small for the bore, accuracy can be abysmal."
This is most excellent. Cheers, Doug
edit: Gee Gunlaker, is that 460535 still a money w/ so short a nose?
RE: Money Bullet Recommendation - Gunlaker - 01-03-2016
Doug, that nose if 0.700" long which is pretty close to half the length of the bullet. I think nose length can be a tradeoff in these rifles. Longer makes less drag, but more likely to slump.
For long range I've only ever shot a paper patched Money bullet.
I do shoot one of those .40 cal Money bullets out of a Shiloh too. It's the one they call the "Kidwell" bullet. It has three reduced bands and seats way out. It is accurate, but maybe a little less accurate than the Saeco #740 :-). It works better the farther you shoot and maybe the faster you go.
One bad thing about the reduced driving bands. Blowing sand. At home we don't have sand. When I shot at the Byers range this year, the 500 yard line has a lot of sand. When the wind is really blowing it gets on everything. Those lube grooves really attract it. My score at that distance was miserable. I think mostly because of my fragile mental state caused by dealing with that sand sticking to my bullets. :-) :-)
Chris.