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+---- Thread: Drop tubing methods for the .44-77. (/thread-3046.html)
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Drop tubing methods for the .44-77. - Distant Thunder - 08-16-2020
In developing loads for my 2-D EPP in my .44-77 I quickly found that the case will hold an amount of 1 1/2 Swiss that is at the upper end of what I feel is needed in a .44 or .45 caliber rifle for Creedmoor matches. I have had my best results with between 82 and 88 grains in my .45-70 and .45-90 and I am comfortable with the level of recoil when using a 500 to 530 grains bullet. Velocity is usually in the 1300 to 1370 fps range and that has worked well for me.
With a shallow seated 2-D PPB in my .44-77 as much as 90 grains could be used and maybe even a bit more.
I usually slow pour the weighed powder into my 14" drop tube taking about 3-4 seconds and then seat a .060 LDPE wad compressing the powder some where around .060" to .150" depending on the lot of Swiss and whatever cartridge I am loading. Seeing that the .44-77 was going to hold plenty of powder I thought I'd change things up a bit and just dump 86 grains into the funnel on to of my drop tube and allow gravity to do the rest. This seems to be working well for me.
I did a little research and found that a number of good shooter do something very similar with good results. They say that they haven't seen any significant difference between dumping and slow pouring. I like to keep thing simple and the simpler the better for me. Jump dumping the powder is quicker and gave very uniform powder height.
Just to see if it will matter whether I pour or dump I decided to load enough rounds using both methods to be able to shoot one relay at 600 yards with each during the up coming Wisconsin Rapids mid range match on the 22 of August.
I loaded more that enough to shoot the match with 86 grains of 1 1/2 just dumping the powder into the funnel. I also loaded enough to shoot one relay at 600 yards using 88 grains of the same powder slowly poured into the funnel taking about 3-4 seconds to finish pouring. This last load has only about .030" compression. The cartridge overall length remains 3.605" for both loads and all other details are the same for both.
With a limit of 3 sighters I'll have to pretty much stay with whatever load I start the relay with and I hope to see if there is any real difference between dumping and slow pouring.
RE: Drop tubing methods for the .44-77. - Kurt - 08-16-2020
I wish we could have some time before the match for load tests but it is what it is.
The way I look at this drop tube thing. I also fall in line were I don't see a difference using any length drop tube for the end results with accuracy. I need to use a funnel anyway putting powder in the case so I use the tube that is easy to work with.
I use an electronic powder drop, Frankford Arsenal and when the pan is loaded I dump it in the funnel and it takes a 6-7 count to do it's job seeping empty.The funnel will not pass 1.5 OE, the hole is to small. I also use a 36" drop tube that fits under my Lyman 55 with the cases sitting on the floor and I have a muffin fan on the powder tube with blades cut off to get a mild vibration. I lift the handle to get the drum filled and the vibration does a fine job getting the powder settled in the 55 so when I lower the lever filling the case it's right on the button more then not. When the powder is in the case is full I lift the lever to refill the drum I go about to put a wad in the case and compress the load and start all over again
But
for loads I load for a match I weigh and use the drop tube old habits are hard to break. I also have used the Lyman 55 and just held the case under it and flipped the lever with out the vibrator on it and it hits the 200 yard bowling pin in fine shape.
RE: Drop tubing methods for the .44-77. - Distant Thunder - 08-16-2020
My 14" drop tube has a collar on it so it fits .40, .44, .45 and .50 caliber and only enters the cases about 1/16 of an inch. I set it on top of the case and pour or dump the powder into the funnel on top with my right hand while holding the collar against the case with my left hand. Like I said I like to keep it simple and this was the simplest drop tube I could figure. It's long enough to do the job and short enough to remain seated through the whole process.
With the case to be filled sitting in a hole drilled near the front edge of my bench my drop tube funnel is at eye level. I can see how and where the powder in going as I pour or dump. I then lay the tube down along side the loading block finger start my LDPE wad in the case and compress in one of the presses mounted on my bench. I dump the next charge from my old Pacific powder measurer and set it on the scale. I put the charged and compressed case back in the block and grab the next empty and place it in the hole in my bench. I pick up the drop tube and go again. Repeat, repeat and repeat until I have everything loaded.
Just dumping the weighed charge in the funnel saves all of 3 seconds so I can go either way. The targets on the 22nd will tell me what works and I'll go with that. I do think it will be interesting to see if there is a difference under match conditions. It's only one target each way so it may take some time to prove it out either way.
There is very little that can go wrong or break down, no batteries or cords and switches. That old Pacific will hold within a 1/2 grain total until about the last three dumps then it starts giving light charges and I add powder as needed. If 1/2 grain is not close enough I've never seen it show up on the target!
I spent the first 15 years trying to figure out how to get more powder in my cases. It's nice to now have to figure out how not to put quite so much in the case. Actually, if 88 grains shoots good I have no problem loading 88 grains. I just need something I can repeat each and every time I load. *5 grains would probably be about ideal, but 3 grains more isn't going to hurt that much. That's only 3 fewer cartridges per pound of powder.
RE: Drop tubing methods for the .44-77. - Kurt - 08-17-2020
I like using the Lyman 55 and the vibrator on it with the loading block on the floor and using the 36" drop tube like I mentioned above. With the lever up powder is in the drum is settling, dump it raise the lever move the drop tube to the next case dump it moving case to case and moving the loading block with my foot. When the cases are full seat the wads and compress, seat the bullets.
If I load 100 rounds I even tape a can of powder to the top of the 55. I really don't see any difference with accuracy doing it this way. groping 2/10 high or low does not change the velocity, other things in the loading process do the dirty work opening the groups.
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RE: Drop tubing methods for the .44-77. - Don McDowell - 08-17-2020
I've noticed a slow pour will leave a bit more room in the case than just dumping the charge. It really makes no matter as I use a compression die of some sort to seat the wad anyway.
RE: Drop tubing methods for the .44-77. - Distant Thunder - 08-17-2020
I've given up a lot of my bad (unnecessary) habits for loading BPC but I can't get past weighing each charge. I weigh and sort my bullets and usually only scrap a very small percentage. If I did not weigh my bullets I would always wonder if that 7 @ 5 o'clock was a bad bullet or a condition change my spotter missed or what. I know it's never me!
And if it was I would never admit it! 
Don, as near as I can tell I would gain about 3 to 4 grains if I slow pour and had the same compression, but 86 grains is enough. This .44-77 is no slouch!
RE: Drop tubing methods for the .44-77. - Kurt - 08-17-2020
Jim, I found around 82-85 grains seems to be a sweet point and I don't care if it's the .45-70, .45-90 .44-77 or my .44-75 Ballard they all seem to shoot the 82 gr well.
I used to weigh bullets and only kept the heavy 3/10's gr of the bunch figuring the once below that weight had improper fill or dross buried in the bullet.
I don't weigh anymore because I seldom see a bullet 4-5/10 light from heavy in weight once the mould is up to temp.
RE: Drop tubing methods for the .44-77. - Distant Thunder - 08-17-2020
I agree 100% on the 82 to 85 grains. My 44-77 holds just a bit more so what can I do. I can learn to live with 86 to 88 grains if it shoots well.
I was able to pick up some Federal 215 primer in my travels today. Not sure they will prove to be the best in the long run but they do work pretty well and I will have to live with them for now.
Testing at extended ranges will be slow but with this China virus and presidential election year it is what it is.
RE: Drop tubing methods for the .44-77. - Old Jim - 08-17-2020
Of course, I would assume we are all working with cases that are pretty darn clean inside
!
RE: Drop tubing methods for the .44-77. - Kurt - 08-17-2020
Jim, do they need to shine also??