44-77 Sharps paper patched load

[Eric Johanen]

    I ordered this lot of brass about 5 years ago from BACO when I was seriously considering placing the order for a 44-77. Placed the order year and a half ago so not too long of a wait. I wanted to be sure I had a supply of cases when I received the rifle. Case length is 2.263 to 2.267 and I expect to loose some length when it is fire formed. I'll not trim until the are fire formed and then set length to the max. Posted a bullet patched to .439 and slowly pushed through the bore. Lands are clearly seen. The patched bullet was run through a Lee .439 size die for uniformity.

[Nuclearcricket]

That's a nice looking bullet. Who's mold is it from?
When I was playing around with the 44-77 rim thickness and its all captec brass from BACO, I did find that the breach side of the brass was not absolutely flat, and that made getting accurate measurements difficult.
Now I realize that not everyone had all the tools and such laying around that I do, but what I did was to take a piece of aluminum about 1 1/2" in diameter and face off both ends square and then drill a hole through large enough to accommodate the case body, and then cut a brass spacer a little over the rim diameter. I then made sure that the spacer was flat and then I would drop the case in the aluminum, put the spacer on top and use a dial indicator to measure the rim thickness. This way I would pick up the high spot on the case head, not just the rim area.
I did find that the rim thickness will vary a few .001".
I will get around a little later on this morning and get a pic of my set up and post that up. I am sure a picture will make much more sense than my ramblings.
As for trimming the cases, I picked up a used Wilson case trimmer at a gun show last year and a little work on the lathe I was able to make up a sleeve to hold the cases to trim them. That was cheaper and faster than ordering one from Wilson or CH. I don't remember what the body taper is but its not very much, I just used a 1" diameter piece of aluminum and once fired cases, worked very well for me.
Sam

[Eric Johanen]

Brook's adjustable. .431 diameter with a .20 meplat. Very nice mold and casts beautiful.

[Nuclearcricket]

Cool, thanks, I found the pics, so here they are, showing the sleeve
   
setting up the indicator
   
measuring the rim thickness
   

[Kurt]

Sam.
That is a good idea. I called Wilson some time back about making a trimmer with a cutting head large enough for facing case heads with a holder like yours that will hold the case. The reply was that was a good thought but to make a friction fit case holder would be hard with the variances of the brass bases. It would need a holder with internal holding jaws would not be cost efficient for the average hand loader.

Life would be a lot easier for the shooter and case manufactures if there was a standard for the chamber rim recess. Originals, Shiloh, CSA, CPA all are different for the same caliber like the .44's and .40's.

[Nuclearcricket]

What I have shown is just how I measure case head thickness. The sleeve I made for the case trimmer looks just like any other Wilson case holder other than the fact that it is aluminum and not steel.
I did make a set up to trim case head thickness but in doing so I took the material off the underside of the case rim. This was done in a lathe. I had done this for a guy that had one of the early Uberti '76 winchester copies in 45-60 I think. I used a piece of aluminum bored out to just over the rim diameter and a little less than the rim thickness, then put a center drilled plug in the case mouth. Friction spun the case in the lathe, and it was a simple in and out cut.
Doing things this way it didnt effect the primer pocket depth as there was .003 to .005" that had to come off the rim thickness. I even went so far as to make up a set of guages for guys to find the right rim thickness for their rifles. I hope the guy that kept them enjoys them.
Sam

[Kurt]

My Sheldon tool room Lathe is down and I think I will part it out and replace it with a lathe/mill combo. One small enough so I can get it down in the basement where it will be handy. When I picked the Sheldon off the trailer I used my International Back Hoe and when I made the pick the back wheels came off the ground it is so heavy. I had to extend the boom horizontal to get it in the shed. I been looking at a http://boltontool.com/Lathes/lathe-mill-...stem-AT320 but still procrastinating

[Nuclearcricket]

Not a bad looking set up. I think that is the first one I have seen that is that big, most that I have seen of the lathe/mill combos have been bench size. I also understand holding off on spending, we are a lot alike in that respect I guess. The lathe I have is just a little 7X14 from MicroMark. Its nice in that it had english lead screws in it. It does have its faults but for what I do with it I am able to pretty much work around them.
I try to not work on anything over 3" in diameter and try to not do anything too long. Other than that it does a fine job on the things I have used it to make. Mostly I make replacement scope caps for external scopes. but have made some parts for old luber/sizers and things like that. One thing that is nice is that its a change gear lathe and I can get the combination to cut all kinds of strange pitch threads. Most of the scope caps are 48 tpi, some are 42. I just did a job where I cut about a 10-38 thumb screw for an old lyman luber/sizer.
At this point I can honestly say that I have made enough money wiht that little lathe to pay for the lathe, accessories, upgraded and a few bottles of good bourbon.
I just can't bitch at that.
Sam

[J.B.]

That is a neat set up Sam and a little too advanced for this yokel. Your comment about the breech side of the case is interesting also. I had that problem with the 405 Hornady brass used in my sons 40/70 but then they were different chambering so its a bit unfair to pass judgement. One lot of 50 needed a bit of burnishing with fine wet & dry but the next lot went straight in. Even variations of less than .001" seem to make a different with these cases as the bearing surfaces can be quite large when compared to any camming action ( if there is any ) to chamber the round. I'm thinking Eric's purchase of Captech was possibly stock from earlier runs of Jamison brass and I'd heard from Kurt and a few others that some of these ran some slightly thicker rims. The initial lot of cases I purchased through Captech a couple of years back ran rims of .072-.074" thickness ( and yes they are difficult to measure accurately ) via verniers . The chambered fine and once fire formed, settled in nicely. Oh to have the skills to use a lathe.

Gavin.

[Nuclearcricket]

I do have it on excelent authority that at one point Jamison had problems holding rim thickness and that the individual that was in charge of that part of the process does not work there any more. So if some of your brass is from that time frame, yes there may be some problems with it.
As to the fit, if your using a Sharps action, they yes a rim that is .001" too thick can cause problems. Something like a Stevens or highwall type of action, might be a little more forgiving.
As for my lathe skills and all my tools, well since about 1972 or so I have been in machine shops and actually started to earn a living in 1976 as a machinist and worked my way up to toolmaker. The lathe I picked up as something to have to do things for my self but I got to playing around and then ran into someone that said " I need this, can some one help me?" . Well I opened my mouth and have been making caps since. Some day I would like to have a nice little bench mill to go along with my lathe, I just haven't found what I want at a price I can afford. Maybe if I would stop buying things like the Hepburn kit I ordered the other week I would afford a mill.
I guess I could also look at things from the other side, if everyone had my tools and skills, I would not be able to make any beer money. Everyone would be doing things themselves.
Sam