In the mailbox

[Griff]

When I actually have my rifle (next week?) I'll start a brand new thread and keep it going through the early development. I'll welcome any constructive input.

I'll watch that one closely. I'm not really certain when to expect my rifle (or the "pay up or die letter" for that matter), but I have a lot to learn in the meantime.

Thanks, gents.

Griff

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[Kurt]

I push my 1/19 ROT pretty hard at times. I have a KAL elliptical that is 1.460 long and I have used it at the Q and MT 1000 with the .19 ROT .44-90BN and it did well at the 1K but I can push that rifle past 1400 FPS. In the 19 ROT .44-77 it falters past 600 but still does OK at 300 at Cadillac MI.
But I don't have a bullet that will outperform the one cast with the Brooks adjustable .433 cast at 1.325" 485 gr with the original Sharps profile nose.
It also shoots very good in the 17 ROT early .44-77 Shiloh Farmer with a 17 ROT. But for that rifle I lengthen it to 1.4".

[Distant Thunder]

I know you can gain some stability by pushing a bullet faster, but because BP is so limiting in velocity the gain would be limited I would think. With a marginally stabilized bullet any gain would be good.

I think you would have to push a .446 diameter bullet that is 1.460" long at something over 1500 fps to have really good stability! That's pretty fast for BP. While a 17-twist will stabilize that same bullet at about 1280 fps. That's a velocity the .44-77 can reach pretty easy. I know I researched the heck out of this subject when I was struggling with what twist to go with for my .44-77. I really wanted to just go with the Shiloh standard 19-twist, but I just couldn't make it work with the longer bullets I'd prefer to shoot at 1000 yards, not on paper anyway.

I know the 19-twist will do well with bullets up to about 1.325" long, but that is only about 470 to 480 grains depending on bullet design. I concluded that a .44 caliber bullet of 530 grains would be a better choice than a 480 grain bullet especially in tough conditions.

I also believe that bullet shape and bearing length have a effect on stability. Longer more slender noses will require more rpm (or velocity). So many people talk about bullet stability in terms of weight when there is so much more that comes into play.

I very often see the question asked like this: "How heavy of a bullet can I shoot in my .40-70 ST?". That question is not going to get an answer that is useful. I don't think most shooters understand twist rates at all. I know I didn't for a long, long time. That's why I ended up with an 18-twsit .40-65! Then it took me several years to figure out why the 420 grain bullet I was shooting in it didn't always shoot as well as I hoped and why the little 350 grain bullet always shot so well. I've learned a few things since then.

[Don McDowell]

At one of the BPTR nationals I was shooting the BACO .434470 in my 44-77, it did ok at 800, fair at 900. 1000 I was 5 shots into score and didn't have a single hit on the target. I jumped up and grabbed 5 of the 1.3 inch .435 new postel nose bullets I had Brooks make a mould for ( 460 grs), but had not fully tested. Finshed the target with a 45.
Looking forward to the #1 coming this fall. Planning to wrap those Brooks bullets in 7 lb. paper and give them a pretty thorough test at 1000.

[Distant Thunder]

Well, Don, I guess I'll just have to get my 19-twist .44-77 on order so I can see for myself how well a 1.3 will do at 1000!
I'm not kidding either, I would really like to have a Hartford built and if I did it would be a 30" standard weight octagon, single trigger, shotgun butt and maybe one step up in wood. That would make an excellent hunter. I would love to try it at 1000 though.
No flies on that original Postell of Brooks'. I think those old round nose designs are too often over looked in favor of the money designs and I believe the round nose in most cases will out shoot the money. In part because most people are shooting those money bullets that are a bit too long for their twist rate.

[Don McDowell]

In the 44 2.4 I really like the way that 434470 holds vertical at 1000, it's not a pure money bullet, but closer to the metford or as the ODG's called them long pointed bullets.
I have 2 lengths of greasers in 44 with the original postel nose and for greasers they sure shoot well. The 480 gr version is a good one to take when the family goes to the Whittington as it will ding the bullseye plate on their 1138 yard buffalo with regularity. The family will blow thru a box of 50 with lots of grins in nothing flat, using the CSA 75 I had rebarreled to 44 2.4l using the barrel from Oregon Barrel, and mounted with a 23 inch MVA scope.
I've been comptemplating another dual diameter 44 and 45 mould from Brooks with his original postel nose. That dual diameter I had him build for the 40-70 sure holds up well to 600.

[Distant Thunder]

I believe that the 2-D PPB is set to impress some people once we get past this election year bullshit and things can return to whatever normal is, you know, like when there were matches to go to. That design, the 2-D PPB, is one reason I really wanted the standard Shiloh chamber and why I had Shiloh do the work. I think with their standard chamber and a well designed 2-D bullet I will have a very capable rifle and get more paper patches signed on. It will take some time to lay it all out for others to follow, but by next year I hope to have spread the word at least some.

[Kurt]

I know for fact that a 1.325" long bullet will hit a iron buffalo using the Lawrence barrel sights at 1585 yards with out a problem in a wind using the 19 twist .44-77.

[J.B.]

Jim I think you are 'on the money' when it comes to velocities with the longer & heavier bullets in the 44. Please excuse the 'aberration' ..by digressing to some gg figures... but I managed to get a handful of rounds across a Magneto speed chronograph in late February this year... just before the world shut up shop and we were incarcerated like lepers . Too much down time with no shooting... means new moulds...so I managed to coerce Dave at BACo. and he kindly had Jim tool up a gg bullet for my 44 x 1/17" twist. Length is 1.435"... reduced forward bands and weight at 530 gns in 16/1. Loaded with 84 x Swiss 1.5, about .1" comp, 60 thou wad and BR2 primers...it was averaging 1300 fps. This was shot from a 1/19" twist rifle but the same chamber. As a matter of interest... my Brooks Postel style bullet at 484 grns with the same load was clocking only about 24 fps faster. Hardly a detailed analysis given there were only about 4 rounds of each...but its an indicator. Bullet seating depth on that BACo design is just below .3" so pp would allow a little more before room becomes scarce. Coal @ 3.395 - 3.4". They look cool....but they aren't 'PP Cool' .

J.B.

incidentally...that gg design is on the BACo website ..with a disclaimer to me as designer. Dave & I laughed... I can live with that. Definitely not the best contender for long range in a 44 x 2 1/4" with a 1/19" though.

[Don McDowell]

Jim the light came on for me on the bullet length one day when I was comptemplating why I was having such dismal results beyond 800.
I was looking at examples of bullets I keep on my desk and bam there was a pull down bullet from an original 44-77 creedmoor round
Well what do you know 1.3 inches lung 455 grains