.38-50 Hepburn

[Kurt]

Arnie I'm really looking forward to shooting shoulder to shoulder with you. Another friend I shoot with at Alma MI also shoots a .38-50 Rem Hep.
Man this really puts the itch on my finger to shoot this shooter. I only have 5 cases you fire formed for me right now I can load and they are ready to make smoke.
Also I loaded 100 more .30-40 Krag cases with Unique and corn meal topped with a lube plug to keep that mess corralled when I load the rifle for blowing the shoulder out. I think I will hold off with 300 cases for now till I see how this little shooter knocks the rams down.

Kurt

[Kurt]

Well the fun is starting.

Drove down to Oklahoma and picked it up. It came in at 10.4# with a 30" 1/2 round barrel. Very good balance holding it off hand with the heavy wood and the 1/2 round kept the weight off the muzzle weight in front. The wood is a little darker than I like but I really like the rifle. From the Hepburns I have seen build by others and originals They looked like the stock wad made larger at the buttplate end to keep the drop down but this rifle is NRA legal for comb hight above center bore.
I really like the feel bringing it up and the reach for the trigger is shorter than the 74 Sharps. It just feels good.
But there is a drawback forming the .30-40 brass blowing the shoulders out. The Winchester cases I have fall short maybe 1/16" to 1/8" fully chambering and the Hepburn action does not have any caming action to get the case fully seated. I just got home late last night and have not looked where the tight fit is. I pushed hard to get one case seated loaded with unique and corn meal to fire it and it blew the shoulder out very smooth.
I will make a chamber cast to see where the tight fit is. I think it's with the rim diameter against the extractor. But I will get it done.

I don't expect this rifle to hold for long range but I would like to see what it can do. I had this build for midrange and silhouette plus for my two younger Grand Daughters that are doing very well behind a .22 low wall and they are one hr from Friendship IN.

[Distant Thunder]

Looks damn good!

[craneman]

Kurt,
That is beautiful! Dan does make a fine rifle.
I have been wanting a 38-50 for a number of years but hadn't decided what platform to build it on. I have everything but the rifle. That being said if you need to borrow them I have a set of ch4d 38-50 dies you could borrow if needed to size those cases down for final fireforming.
I have a new to me CPA in 32-40 coming and I think I'll just pack it up and send it to Gail for a new barrel to scratch that itch. I just need to see what reamer she uses. I have 500 new RP krag cases I bought years ago for this eventuality!
Let me know on the dies and I'll drop them in the mail if they would do you any good.
Congratulations on the new Hepburn!
Todd

[Kurt]

Thank you Tod for the offer but my problem right now is the base and rim diameters. The Winchester .30-40 Krag cases are a little tight on these places. The case is tight enough that I cant get the last 1/16" to chamber. I turned the rim diameter down tonight from .535" to .532"
And I still had to take a smidge off the base to seat the case.

A full length sizing die will not do this without cutting part of the base off the die and push the case all the way up to the rim and drive it back out with a punch. Arnie mentioned this to me and that tripped my memory that I had to do this with the .405 Hornady brass for the .40-70 to get them to chamber.

I found out in a hurry today that the Hepburn has zero caming action and this will even be if you have a slightly high primer you will not get the breach closes or you will shave the primer.
I already made a very big mistake loading 300 cases with Unique and corn meal to blow the necks out before I had the rifle in my hands but I still have 200 empty.

But I van turn the rim diameter down on the lathe with out a problem but I hate to shave the base down but I want to keep the strength so the only option is to unload and do it right or I have the option to polish out the entrance of the chamber a smidge, but I really don't want to do that.

Would you do me a favor and measure your Rem brass base and rim diameter ?

Kurt

[Don McDowell]

Kurt do you have any of the Graf's 30-40 brass? It was made by Jamison, and I think someone else has picked up the manufacture of it for Grafs, as they had some listed again on their web site a few months ago.

[Kurt]

Don I will check it out.
I really don't need anymore I had Red River Reloading send me 500 cases when they had them on sale for $200.

[craneman]

Kurt, the new RP 30-40 brass I have measures .4525 on the base and a rim diameter of .541
The new winchester 30-40 brass I have measures .452 at the base and the rim diameter is .536.
Do you suppose Dan's reamer is a little worn resulting in a slightly undersized chamber at the base?
I had a very similar issue with a chamber once and elected to use an expandable brass lap to open it up slightly and it worked well. I'm not so sure I didn't get that idea from you in one of your posts! I'm not a machinist so that sort of imprecise method of lap a little measure and repeat made me nervous but it worked well. I'm sure Jim would read that shaking his head mumbling wth?! Not a precise repeatable method but...

[Kurt]

Thank you Todd.

My Win brass is like yours. The base is pretty consistent in diameter but the rim will vary from .532 to some at .5353 the largest I found.

No I don't think Dan would re sharpen a reamer after getting a tour through his shop. He has more CNC tooling than any place I been through or watched on YouTube plus going through his gun building hobby room where his stock duplicator he build. His shop is top quality.
He has computerized ark wire cutter, forgot what the proper name is but he handed me a about a 1 inch square iron block and when I looked at it the center slid out with 3 initials that were flawless. I pushed them back in the block and the lines you had to look very hard to see them. I never seen anything so precise. Dan said his rifle building is just his retired hobby.

Yes I have used clover lapping compound and it does a fine job for things like this but this rifle action is so tight and precise that I will not alter it. I will work on the brass and make it fit.
I ran a couple cases through a .40-70 base swage die I made for the .405 Hornady cases for the .40-70 last night and that solved the tight bases.
I also found that some cases have a problem in head thickness. There is no flex that I can see between the breach block and the barrel when the breach is closed on the empty chamber. This is what makes the Hepburn a problem with no coming of the breach block. Even a slightly high primer gets marked closing the back. The 44-1/2 Stevens action will cam a shell in almost 3/16" that would be a plus with my issue right now.
It's a little more work for me right now but it will be a joy when I get these cases fired a couple times.
Heck I only had one day so far to get into this

[Don McDowell]

Maybe build one of those cartridge crammers for that rifle?