How is the chamber lead angle determined?

[Don McDowell]

Todd we're lucky to have ol Kurt helping us.

[Kurt]

I have a .44-2-5 bn reamer with a 5° that would clean that chamber out but that would mean all new brass and dies.

[craneman]

Your right Don, we are lucky to have Kurt and his willingness to share his experience's! That is one of the aspects of forums like this that is so beneficial, those that are willing to share their findings with others. Through this we all learn.

Kurt, I appreciate the offer of the reamer but I have plenty of starline 45 2.6 and Norma 45 3.25 brass on hand so I am going to stay the course on the 44 2.6. I just need to figure out what to do about a resizing die. I know CH4D lists the 44-100 straight dies but I don't know what their dimensions are. I wonder if they will make a custom die from a chamber cast? This is an issue I haven't dealt with before as everything I have had so far has been pretty standard.

Thanks!

Todd

[Kurt]

Todd.

I use a .44-70 Maynard sizing die for the .44-100 made by CH-4D. I still think you should shoot that rifle as it is. The free bore is not a problem for the PP bullet. It's just a matter to get the brass the proper length. What I think will give you a problem is the large head dimensions and the .475 case mouth with a .338 bore diameter. This will give you a .007" slop holding a .446 GG bullet and if you size the case down to hold a bore diameter .338 PP bullet that case will look like a bottle necked case. All the way around I see a problem. Even the Base diameter at .510 might give you a problem bulging a .503 base diameter case your brass is.
Having a 2.6 reamer made from that cast is not going to do anything but clean up the sharp chamber end and free bore you will still have that excess case mouth diameter.
Check out what I said for the dimensions and see what you come up with. I might be missing something here. I hope the instrument you took the measurements with is out of calibration.
I really think re chambering it to a .44-2-5/8 (.44-90 bn) is a better option if your measurements are correct from the chamber cast. But you will still have a large case mouth

Kurt

[Iron Coyote]

Todd
Just a thought ,set back the brl. Then chamber to what you want/have?
I think you will like the Fekken action.Have 2 of them.
THNX LOTS
Bob
Yes I was watching it!

[craneman]

By gosh Kurt your right. I was so worried about that throat/leade I hadn't realized the differences in the rest of the measurements as they relate to my brass. I will have to speak to the gentleman that sold this as a 44-90 and see what he has to say.

Bob,
I like the Feken action, but don't have the ability to set the barrel back and chamber myself which is why I bought this one, thought I was getting what I had been contemplating. If I were starting from scratch I would buy one of Dennis Feken's newer type 2 actions.
Setting the barrel back would be one way to salvage the barrel if it came to that.
By the way, I really like your Hepburn, I have always liked those a lot.

Todd

[Kurt]

Todd, what is the case length from the front of the rim not the head stamp side?

I think what I would do is use a different aliper or mic and measure that cast again. I just dont see making a reamer that would chamber a .438"/.446" barrel that fare over sized.
It just seems like the case mouth and base are about th ame .007" oversized.

[Iron Coyote]

Todd
Thank You
Its been a long time coming.Even junk Hepburns up here is terribly expensive.
I agree with Kurt,use a GOOD micrometer to be sure of your numbers.
Best of luck with this project.
THNX LOTS
Bob

[craneman]

Todd, what is the case length from the front of the rim not the head stamp side?

I think what I would do is use a different aliper or mic and measure that cast again. I just dont see making a reamer that would chamber a .438"/.446" barrel that fare over sized.
It just seems like the case mouth and base are about th ame .007" oversized.

Kurt,
I decided to step back and look at the big picture before getting too excited. When I got back in this afternoon I took another chamber cast to verify my findings, also using two different calipers and one micrometer and the dimensions remain the same except for the base diameter ahead of the rim.
The diameter of the chamber just in front of the case head/rim is: .507
The diameter at chamber end/case mouth: .473
The chamber length from the inside edge of the rim cut to the end: 2.362 Barrel dimensions measured from cast and lead slug: Bore:.438 Groove: .446

I don't know if my thinking is correct but it almost perfectly mimics the chamber in my modern Winchester 45 2.4 if the numbers are extrapolated for the smaller bore.
Winchester chamber base diameter: .511
New chamber base diameter: .507
Winchester chamber mouth: .485
New chamber mouth: .473
Winchester Bore/Groove .451/.459
New barrel Bore/Groove .438/.446

Norma 45-120 brass trimmed to 2.427, mouth thickness .0135 per side.
Winchester chamber mouth .485-.0135-.0135=.458
New Barrel chamber mouth .473-.0135-.0135=.446
It appears to me if I am looking at the numbers correctly that the chamber with this brass would work for grease groove bullets and possibly patched to groove bullets...

Am I looking at these numbers correctly?
My head hurts!

By the way Kurt if you have not gotten one I just received a match flyer from Jason for the Milan Mid-Range match, if you need/want a copy and I can email it to you if you PM your email.

Thanks again!

Todd

[Kurt]

OK. The norma brass would be good to go. The .473" chamber wall is still a very generous chamber. Shiloh uses .468". My .44-100 chamber has a .464 and that is still loose with the Jamison and Starline brass I use, but mine wont except a GG. If your using a GG with the Norma brass your good to go for a GG.
My .44-100 reamer is to small in the base @ .500" and neck @ .464" for you to use to make your chamber a .44-100 rem. Sorry I cant help.

Jason must have read this post I got a schedual. May and Oct will work for me. That will be a good warm up for Backer and the Q.