.458 bulging Starline

[laowho]

That's the long and the short of it. Itsa Shiloh 45-70 and reports that it's a consistent .450-.457 seem spot on. Tight chamber as expected. Loading the .458 bullets which measure true are bulging the S'line brass noticeably and such that they won't chamber. Undesirable option would be to size bullets to .457. Am hoping that the Rem. brass, with thinner walls, will load the .458 bullet w/o bulging the brass. Anyone have the same experience? Guess I should just try some? Thanks, Doug

[Mike]

Doug, .458s shouldn't bulge the brass like that. Please describe your entire load and your loading procedure. Maybe that way we can "see the light." Shoot sharp, Mike

[Kurt]

Doug I don't know what your loading procedures are so I really cant say why your having a problem. I have two .45 Shiloh's and both have a .482" chamber wall at the case mouth and I also have the reamer drawings Shiloh used and are using. .482 chamber wall should take a .458+ diameter bullet with even Norma brass that has a thick neck wall.

If you seating the bullet and compressing the powder when you seat it the bullet will expand and cause that bulge. If your compressing the powder using a compression plug and compressing the powder a lot this will also cause a bulge.
If you don't have the seating die adjusted properly and it starts up into the crimp portion of the die before the travel of the ram is at the top this will also start a bulge.
It's hard to say with out knowing your loading technique.
Another thing, If you have a special order tight chamber they make for the PP then you will have a problem seating a bullet and get it to chamber.

Kurt

[Kurt]

Another thought, Are you full sizing the cases and when your expanding the necks to seat the bullet is there a bulge in the case before you seat it???
If your flaring the case mouth for seating the bullet do you remove the flair after the bullet is seated???

[laowho]

Thanks Kurt. Seems the bulge was the flare carried all the way down the length of the seat in the bullet. I took a new case, took out the flare (resizing die), dry loaded a bullet and it seated all the way down w/o a bulge. Had to seat it to an OAL of 2 15/16" to have it fully chamber. Does this seem short to you? Whatever the case, glad that I can load the .458 bullet w/o flaring the case, and that I can use the brass I have. The BACO ammo I got also uses S'line brass and the front driving band on the bullet is at least as large a dia. as are the Chey Bullet .458s I got. And know these are true cuz I ran 'em thru the bullet re-sizer (.458).

One thing tho...if I'm limited to 2 15/16" OAL, how in the world do I get 70 gr powder in for a 500 gr bullet?

Just read yer 1st post--no, compressed .15" after drop tubed. Not a special PP chamber. Seating die is properly set. Also, am tryin to load w/o crimp, but the taper die does work.

[bobw]

70-75 grs goes in easy for use with paper patched bullets but you better forget that with greasers. bobw

[Kurt]

Doug.

Your overall seating length depends on what your bullet profile will allow. Like if you have one or two front driving bands reduced or the length of the ogive compared to the shank.

I wouldn't worry about an extra 3 or 6 grains of powder it will not give you that much for velocity if this is what your wanting to get.
I would develop a load, what I call a ladder load by increasing your compression from zero to what you feel comfortable with. Increase your powder load one grain using 3 to 5 rounds mark your cases for record. Like 3 68 gr next 3 69 gr to the point you don't want to compress the powder anymore. Usually 21 shots fired will give you an idea what can be used to improve the load. (wads, powder,primer or different grade of powder) This will also give you time to get comfortable behind the butplate and controlling the rifle. In other words "trigger time"

[laowho]

Thanks Kurt, I pre-poured OE FF @ 68 gr, 69 gr and 70 gr with .060 wads, and compressed .15" Here's what I know now. The distance from chamber to lands is 1/8". On these particular bullets there are 2 profiles: a RN 415 gr that requires 1/2" depth seat to chamber, and; a Postell type 500 gr that requires 9/16" to seat (according to their particular front driving bands). To adequately seat the RN in the 68 gr load I would have to further compress the powder 1/8" for a total compression of 3/16" or .18"--still well w/i the lesser compression that OE is said to prefer. However, for the 69 gr and 70 gr loads afraid the required compression would be too great. But NB, I've read that OE prefers 68 gr. I will however endeavor to compress the 69 gr for the RN at least--should max out at about .30"

Thanks for yer help. It's pretty neat gettin to know the components. But say, would the finer granule powder help here? Just that I've read that FF is specifically for rifle loads, but know I've seen people usin 1.5F. Cheers, Doug

[Kurt]

Doug using a finer granulation is something you have to work out with a ladder load. All this depends on the bullet weight and what ever your load is.
I never had satisfactory results with 45 bullets down around 400 grains other then the trapdoor. It does fine using a 400 gr.
I use 1F,1.5F, 2F 3F and I can get them all to shoot to my satisfaction. It just takes some load developments and keeping records for the particular bullet used. Getting load information from someone else other then using your rifle can only be used as a guide for a starting point then the rest is behind your buttplate and down in the mole den loading.

OE powder my groups peak at .190" to .230" compression. This is using 2 and 3F. It actually has three accuracy peaks I find in my .44-75 caliber using 3F OE. Using zero compression to a very highly compressed load.

[Don McDowell]

Doug , the compression die is for compressing the powder enough to seat the bullet. Pour the powder in the case, set the wad on top and compress enough to allow the bullet to seat to the desired depth without putting any force on the nose. Set your crimp die to just take the flare out of the case mouth and no more.