True up your cast and paper patched bullets

[Eric Johanen]

Lately I've switched to the Lee "push thru" size dies to true up my cast bullets. I have a old Lyman Postell mold that drops nice bullets but just a whisker out of round. Dropped from the mold they run .459 with 20/1 alloy. The Lee sizer at .459 barely touches the bullets and brings them round. I have also been using them in the appropriate size to even up the paper on my patched bullets. Using Esleeck .002 paper there is some variation from sheet to sheet and a run through a .450 die evens up the diameter (.4505) just enough to uniform each bullet. My bullets cast from a BACO 625 grain "Creedmoor" mold at 512 diameter show a very slight variation on the front driving band from batch to batch making some bullets a bit hard to seat fully in the chamber so I have been running them through a .512 die and they true up perfectly making each one chamber the same. Bullets cast from BACO" Money Bullets" and "Creedmoor" cast round and true diameters and they are pan lubed and loaded as cast. Not really sure if a less than a thousands variation makes that much of a difference but I feel better loading and shooting them as uniform as possible. (All my bullets are sorted and shot by weight). So for some bullets that can use a bit of attention, the Lee dies really work great. I've added these tools to my bench and am pleased with how they work.

[Rowdy Rick]

Eric, where can one get the push thru dies?

Rick

[Eric Johanen]

You can order direct from Lee Precision, about 40 bucks for custom sizes. Pretty quick turn around. Sizes are available in one thousands increments. They feed nose first so no distortion of the bullet noses. I've not used my RCBS Lube-sizer since I started with these. Great tools! For slicks I lightly lube the bullet and put them through the die to uniform them or reduce the diameter a thousand or two. Patched bullets are pushed through dry and greaser's are used lubed and run through. Quick, clean and very simple.

[rdnck]

Bear in mind that greasers that have a bore riding nose have most of the bullets' bearing surface IN FRONT of the driving bands due to the upsettage of the bullet when fired, and you can only size the driving bands. You can't do anything about the majority of the bullet in front of the driving bands, and if the bullet is out of round, the nose is going to stay that way, sizing die or not.

Having said that, I have a set of the Lee push through dies, and they work great. They really true up a paper patched bullet. Shoot straight, rdnck.

[Eric Johanen]

This Lyman Postell mold is 1 thousand out of round. Nose varies between .449 and .450. not much but at least the driving portion of the bullets trues up to .459 Old Lyman 459125 nose is oversize and hard to chamber If I use it I have to run the nose through a ,44 Magnum ,448 carbide size die. (it does work really well in a original Springfield Trapdoor rifle). Pain in the butt so I ordered a .458 BACO 500 grain RN Government mold and it drops the nose at .448. Perfect for shooting dirty as it carries a whole bunch of lube. It holds more lube than the Lyman mold and shoots very well in my Shiloh. Will have to test it in the newer C. Sharps. I have really noticed the difference with paper patching. After a pass through the die, each bullet chambers with the same amount of pressure. These Lee push through dies have become a standard in my loading process.

[Kurt]

Another thing to keep in mind is when the powder is lit the bullet will be round and if the alloy is 1/20 or softer the bore riding portion will also be swaged round a lot of it's length from setback. It will look like a PP bullet with no bore riding portion but it will have grooves

[Eric Johanen]

With Winchester brass and 25.5 grains of 5744 powder the Lyman Postell shoots very well. Within a few points of my usual black powder loads at 200 yards for some quick range time practice. I also use the BACO 500 gr. RN with smoke less powder 5744 at 25.5 gr. I have not used these loads in quite awhile but with the weather changing I wanted to put some up for practice when the wind and temps turn less than pleasant. With the trued up the Lyman Postell it takes another step in the loading cycle but it does make me more confident that I'm loading quality ammunition. Winter months are a bore but when the cold and wind are not too nasty I still like to pull triggers and get in some practice. Not having to deal with black powder fouling the bore speeds the process and lessens my exposure on less than ideal days. As rdnck stated is does a nice job of uni-forming the finished paper patched bullets making chambering pressure the same every time. Reducing the diameter of a paper patched bullet by a thousands or two and matching the paper thickness can give you a bullet that clears the fouling and allow repeated shots without fouling control for hunting applications. I believe that a dirty shooting load that groups 5 or 6 inches for long string of shots at 200 yards should make the deer afraid, very afraid!

[rdnck]

Eric--IF I run a paper patch bullet through a sizing die, it is BEFORE I put the paper patch on the bullet, not after. Shoot straight, rdnck.

[Eric Johanen]

I use the die both ways: Patched .444 bullet with .002 100% bond paper size can vary from .4505 to .4515 and I uniform them to ,4505. If I want a smaller diameter bullet I use a bit of lube and run the bullet through die 1 or 2 thousands smaller and patch. Work's well for a dirty shooting hunting load. 2 thousands seems to work well for a diameter to clear fouling at the chamber mouth and allows a good number of follow up shots without wiping or blow tube use. I have not gone smaller that 2 thousands for fear of distorting the bullet. Measurements generally show a reduction of 1 to 1,5 thousands with the die I am using for my .45 caliber bullets. For the .44 caliber, reduction is 1 thousand and I patch with Seth Cole 55Y. This gives fouling clearance and with further testing should make for a good hunting load. I'll be developing this combination more next season when the weather turns again.

[Distant Thunder]

I'm kinda with Eric on sizing patched bullet. Starting some time in 2016 I began "sizing" ALL my paper patched bullets for my Hepburn .45-70 I use in long-range matches. I did this because in my search for as tight a fit to the bore as possible I had finally opened up my mold to the point that a few bullets in the 100 or so required to shoot a match would either chamber with great difficulty or would require more pressure than I can apply with my old arthritic thumb. Too many years of pushing grease grooved bullets hard into the rifling I guess!

Anyway, I was having trouble chambering a handful of cartridges and I'd have to get up out of position, knock the PP bullet out with my wiping stick, get back in position, attempt to chamber another cartridge, get back on MY target, and try to break a good shot finally. This wasn't helping my scores I didn't think.

So I made up a push thru sizing die, similar to a Lee, that I run my .451" PATCHED bullets thru to uniformly size them to .4505". This also irons out the fold over at the base really nice. I don't know it that helps accuracy any, but they sure look nice! Looking good is key to shooting well, because the better your bullets look the more confident you'll be and the better you'll shoot. This is the main reason I shoot paper patched bullets, even a guy like me looks his best when shooting paper patched bullets!

So once my bullet are patched and then sized to a very uniform .4505 diameter they ALL chamber with uniform easy thumb pressure like Eric says and my scores have improved noticeably.

Whether the troubles I was having chambering the same bullets unsized was because of variations in my patching or in the paper or whatever I don't know, but sizing fixed the problem and improved my scores. I don't know if it actually improved the accuracy of my loads, I just know it improved what matters, my SCORES.

So this past summer when I was developing my paper patched bullet for my .40-65 I went to sizing right out of the gate. Does it make any difference, I don't know. I just know that that rifle/load/bullet is consistently the most accurate I have been able to put together. I'm not changing anything!

I like sizing my patched bullets, no lube is required for sizing or shooting and it works great.