.38-50 Hepburn

[Kurt]

I tend to shoot bullets in my 19 twists .44's longer than they should like 1.400" 1.425" even a little longer but the ball hemisphere is around .225 and this makes the ogive radius shorter and this is what Jim is getting to changing the balance point.
When Dan T started with the money bullet designs and payed attention to the talk shooting the MB it wasn't long that the rate of twists started to get tighter in the rifles.
My feeling with these bullet profiles changing to what is used in HP rifles at 3000 fps plus is not ideal with the low velocity we shoot at.
There had to be a reason that the rifles shot at the long range creedmoor matches back in the late 1800rds that they kept the blunter bullets they used. I'm shure that they could have made moulds and hammer swage dies for any of the bullets we shoot nowadays, but they stayed with the blunter nosed.

Just my feelings on this.....

[ian45662]

Jim your exactly right! There will be more than a few moulds for this thing. I might be able to start playing with it this weekend. I will just start at 100 and if that looks like it might work I will try 300 in a few more weeks.

[beltfed]

Ian
FWIW
I started out with my 38-50 with Swiss 3F. A case full compressed 0.075".
under my BACO cut 371360E DDEPP bullet shoots well.
Also went to a dense lot of Swiss 1.5 since I have limited 3f
Similar loading 0.075 or so compression under 0.060 LDPE wad
Shoots very well
Arnie

[ian45662]

Ian
FWIW
I started out with my 38-50 with Swiss 3F. A case full compressed 0.075".
under my BACO cut 371360E DDEPP bullet shoots well.
Also went to a dense lot of Swiss 1.5 since I have limited 3f
Similar loading 0.075 or so compression under 0.060 LDPE wad
Shoots very well
Arnie

You know how fast those puppies were going?

[Distant Thunder]

Kurt,

I'm sure you would have to admit that those longer bullets do better in your .44-90 SBN, where you can drive them faster, than they do in your .44-77 at somewhat lower velocities. Higher velocity means higher rpm and in effect a faster twist.

In my 18-twist (a slow twist) .40-65 I was shooting a 420 grain PJ Creedmoor bullet from a Fred Leeth mold, a most excellent mold, for silhouette and it did very well on all the laydowns including the rams, but it just wasn't consistent. My best and most consistent bullet was the RCBS 350 grain bullet and it worked on all that critters, even the rams. It also shot very well on paper targets out to 600 yards. At the time I didn't understand why the Creedmoor bullet would shoot so well sometimes but spray all over other times.

It turned out that in calm, stable conditions it lumbered on very steadily, but when things got even a bit twitchy it started to wander around and could get really squirrely in the headwinds. I finally learned that my bullet had to match my twist rate and while there is more to it than just length, length is an easy way to calculate if a bullet is suitable for a given twist and weight is not.

When I decided to switch to paper patch bullets in my .40 I started by asking, "What length bullet is best for an 18-twist .40 caliber?". I did not ask, "What weight bullet should I shoot?". Looking at all the info from other shooters and playing with numbers in an online ballistic program I concluded 1.240" was a good length and would be well stabilized in my slow twist.

The next question I set out to answer was, "How heavy of a bullet can I get in that 1.240" length?". I concluded that a bullet design that followed that of the Sharps long range .45 caliber PPB would be about as heavy as I could have and still have a good nose shape for the transonic zone, a reasonable BC..

Because my rifle has a very long freebore, .400", I decided to go with the 2-diameter design that Arnie Seitz and I had worked on for his .40-65 which also has a long freebore. The diameters and length of the base were adjusted to my chamber and I used the Sharps nose design. The resulting bullet is the one I attached earlier in this thread. It is 1.250" long and weighs 382 grains. It has worked better than I ever dreamed it would. It has performed very well out to 600 yards for mid range paper matches and has cleanly knocked down every steel critter I've hit with it while enabling me to shoot my first ever master class scores. The only place it hasn't really improved my silhouette scores is on the chickens! For some reason it does not hit chickens any better than all the other bullets I've tried over the past 18 years!

It is a purpose designed bullet and fits my rifle perfectly. The results say it was worth the time and effort it took to get it right.

[Kurt]

Jim,

Yes with out a doubt the .19 twist .44-90 BN will handle the longer bullets better than the .44-77.
In the .44-77 I shoot a 485 gr of the sharps profile and also I have a tapered Gibbs adjustable and that is also set at 1.335" but those are either cup based or I have the flat based plug. They red heavier with the flat base but both shoot the same and I use them I the .44-90 and the .44-77.
I also have shot the 500 grain in the 19 twist .44-90 and the .44-77 of the sharps profile and in the .44-77 19 twist it does well on the 805 yd Quigley Buff and it is a cup based at 1.385" long.
I also have a .44-90 BN in a 16 twist and I have set the mould at 1.5" and it handled the Q buff very well in some bad winds but it will kick up dust in the 19 twist .44-77.
I think a 16 twist is not as good as a 17 twist.
I have a 17 twist in the .44-77, .44-75 Ballard, .44-100 ST and the .44-90 bn.
In all of those twists the Sharps profile and second the bullet out of the sage brush mould shoots the best. The Sage bullet is 1.455" long and weighs in at 510 gr.
I have not shot it in the 77 19 twist hunting rifle yet to see if it will hold the rams.
But the 19 twist .44-90 bn has held me high at the MT 1000 using the 500 gr 1.385" long Sharps bullet.

I guess you can tell I like the .44's

[beltfed]

Ian,
I clocked my 38-50 loads at 1360-1370fps across my Oehler 33 chronograph
Arnie

[J.B.]

Bit worried for a second when I read back through this.. but its all good now. ..And I quote "And besides, you can't buy just ONE mold for that .38-50! " . One mould ! Surely not. What a preposterous thought. As I work into my
second shelf of bullet moulds.. I thinks to myself I do.... " I should be a better shot than I am with all this behind me" ... Trigger time alas... I need more trigger time. As I sit here trying to roll .0011 linen onto 40 cal dd bullets and not get wrinkles. Might be time for another coffee.
G.

[Kurt]

Well it got warm today 30º when I went out and shot.
This is the first shot fired after shooting cornmeal blanks.
I trimmed 53 cases and reloaded them with some old 3F Goex Express I been saving for this type of work and loaded 60 grains and shot the DDPP 371/345 bullet.
I shot these at 130 yards and the small 1" paster has 8 holes and the large has around 30 or 33 shots fired at it after I got the scope on paper.
Iw was really happy the way to shot for the first load using of all things cold bullets with wrinkles and not properly filled. I figured these would be just fine for the finish forming the brass. I didn't took for accuracy I just wanted to form the brass.
I think this rifle is showing signs that it might shoot.

[beltfed]

Hey , Kurt,
Those groups look like a very good start. FUN!!!
This cartridge seems to shoot well, not fussy, out of the box, like "falling off a log"
Arnie