Hyde's patched

[Don McDowell]

Eric thanks for the flowers,,
I think you'll find the 3f express a bit fast to work real well in rifle cartridges. Keep us posted on your trials and errors, that's how we all learn and benefit.
I do think that bringing the patch down away from the ogive helps eliminate the occasional flier. Wiping routine can make a huge difference as well, and I honestly think more good loads have been thrown aside due to the wiping routine than we may ever really know.
Perry's book is especially interesting, and there's a ton of good info to be gleaned from it. Now on the hunt to locate a good description of both Hyde's and Hepburn's bullets.
Again keep us posted on your findings.

[powderburner]

Perry says they cut the patches on the hyde bullet base, have you found any information as to how much overhang they used , a couple fellows talk about the patches coming loose and also pushing the bullet through the patch loading from the muzzle,
there was a fellow at Quigley a few years ago that had a punch to cut an "eye "from the patch on the base of a flat bullet, wonder also if this was what they used to cut the patches,.
good luck in your hunt for the bullet designs. be interesting to see what you dig up.

[powderburner]

looks like there is some info posted on castboolits I didnt read fist. seems cutting the right length is as easy as cutting tails.

[Don McDowell]

Dean as you saw already it's just as easy or so it seems to simply patche them that way to start with, altho by twisting the tail and then cutting it out the patch is probably tighter on the bullet.
I sort of wonder if a person could sharpen up a good hole punch enough to cut the paper. Biggest concern doing it that way would be just cutting the paper and not "ringing" the bullet base.

[powderburner]

I have left them short , twisted them and tucked and twisted and cut , they re definately tighter if twisted before trimming, but it is a lot simpler to just cut them to length. I have tried different diameter "eyes "on the base and do not see any difference from a small one to one that barely folds over ,. what are you finding? and you are using a flat base now, right?
"

[Freedom]

Dean as you saw already it's just as easy or so it seems to simply patche them that way to start with, altho by twisting the tail and then cutting it out the patch is probably tighter on the bullet.
I sort of wonder if a person could sharpen up a good hole punch enough to cut the paper. Biggest concern doing it that way would be just cutting the paper and not "ringing" the bullet base.

Don, this is exacly what I have done with a hole punch. I think that a light circle cut on the base of the bullet will not effect much as long as the cut doesn't get to the edge... I was finding paper from my twisted or folded tails at the target at 400 yard line, so I just used one of my punches to remove the center of the patch from the base of the bullet.

My bullets have a slight cup ..not a flat base.

The punch leaves just a little paper roll over the base. Things improved as I tested it and got some nice groups (3"/10 shots@300yards) but always had the flyer.....I looked around the prairie and sure enough found a bullet with a piece of paper patch still attached to its' tail.

I didn't totally give-up on the paper patch because I love the idea... but because of its' "issues" I won't drive 4 hours+ to shoot them in a match.

When a guy shooting paper sets down beside me at the line, I sometimes wonder if he may have actually beat me if he had just used a regular bullet

[powderburner]

Freedom, did you do your test with the cut tails or twisted and folded tails? your post is a little confusing , if cut .why did you have paper stuck on the bullet? just curious.

[Don McDowell]

I have left them short , twisted them and tucked and twisted and cut , they re definately tighter if twisted before trimming, but it is a lot simpler to just cut them to length. I have tried different diameter "eyes "on the base and do not see any difference from a small one to one that barely folds over ,. what are you finding? and you are using a flat base now, right?
"

Yes this BACO bullet is flatbased. I don't know as there would be a huge difference on the size of the "hole".
What did impress me the most with this load was the total and complete abscense of wads. None what so ever. Powder smashed and bullet thumbed down on top of it...
Just another one of them things that make you say "HMMMM)
Need to get some longer distance to see if the accuracy holds,and get over on to paper to see the actual group size.

[Don McDowell]

[ When a guy shooting paper sets down beside me at the line, I sometimes wonder if he may actually beat me if he just used a regular bullet

If that guy did his load work up prior, he'll be no worse of a shot than he would be with greasers...

[Freedom]

Freedom, did you do your test with the cut tails or twisted and folded tails? your post is a little confusing , if cut .why did you have paper stuck on the bullet? just curious.

Well I was finding paper at the target with twisted and folded tails so I gave up on them.

My melting pot burned out a few days before the a match and my son wanted to go to Missoula and shoot the 1000 LR so he could experience the pits.

I didn't have enough bullets cast but I did have a few hundred PP ready to go so I used the punch and cut the base out of them in an effort to get the paper to release, took a few loads to the range and test them.

The loads were good enough to compete but the flyer still was there...I may still have the bullet somewhere but the bullet had a long trailing tail attached to the base. I just used one of my .030 CarQuest gasket wads.

It appeared that the wad/powder column had compressed the paper into the edge of the bullets base...what ever happend, the paper made the ride...Needless to say, i didn't make the match.