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BPTR shooters NRA presentation
01-09-2016, 09:53 PM,
#1
BPTR shooters NRA presentation
With all the fuss and muss about the problems with the NRA Competitions division and the search for a workable solution I am posting here the presentation that Zack Taylor made to the Blackpowder committee last October at the Committee's invite. Zack took input from all the bptr shooters at the National match , those shooters in turn put money in the hat to send Zack to NRA HQ to try and reach a working solution between the NRA and the shooters it is supposed to be representing and serving.
There was apparently some feed back after that meeting by a few folks that for reasons beyond comprehension the NRA pays more attention to than others. The said part is the folks they are taking their lead from are mostly self serving and have little to no thought of what the majority of shooters have requested. Nor have they participated in the National Match in several years..So in the end all of our efforts were rejected, because as Mr. Willing so aptly put it, he had info from some other shooters that Zack did not speak for them..
STATEMENT OF PURPOSE
 
Historically, the relationship between the National Rifle Association of America and the American Black Powder Target Riflemen grew out of the Black Powder Target Rifle matches of the 1870's when the World Champion Irish Rifle Team challenged the Americans to a rifle match. The problem presented was that not only did America not have a rifle team, there was no suitable rifle range where the challenge match could be held. As the NRA set about building a range that came to be known as Creedmoor the amateur riflemen of America set about vetting and selecting a team. Against this backdrop was feverish work taking place at the factories of the Sharps Rifle Company and E. Remington & Sons to produce breech loading rifles that would be competitive against the famous English Rigby Muzzle Loading Match Rifles that the Irish Team used.
 
And so it was on September 26, 1874, on the last day of the challenge match at Creedmoor for the last shot of the match to decide the winner, Mr. John Bodine of the American Team needed to score a Bulls eye for the Americans to win. Casually Mr. Bodine took his firing position at the 1,000 yard line and with thousands of Americans lining the field fired the final shot. That shot took nearly four seconds from barrel to target and the silence in the crowd, estimated in the thousands, was deafening. The bullet struck steel and thousands held their breath until the marker appeared in front of the target scoring the shot a Bulls eye and the crowd went wild as the American Team prevailed over the Irish by three points.
 
This grand American tradition was repeated again on September 26, 2015, 141 years to the day later, when National Rifle Association of America Member Competitors from throughout the United States assembled on the 1,000 yard firing line of the Tubb Range at the NRA Whittington Center at Raton, New Mexico, for the Black Powder Cartridge Rifle National Championships. It was there that the final shots were fired and the result was Moritz 504, Garibay 503 and Gregg 502, a mere two points separating the Gold Medal from the Bronze.
A fitting 2015 finish and tribute to our common historical past with the NRA wherein the match was won by three points.
 
Because these initial NRA sanctioned Target Matches at Creedmoor fed the movement that helped form the National Rifle Association it is the express desire of these current day competitors to remain an integral part of today's NRA and we view the enduring proposals from Competitions Division to diminish and transfer these matches out of the NRA as counterproductive, a direct denial of our common roots and contrary to NRA by-laws.
 


In view of current moves by Competitions Division the purpose of this policy recommendation is to ensure the continuity of the National Matches as they presently are and in association with the NRA in perpetuity and facilitate competitor enjoyment and success while engaging in their shooting sport therefore providing the ability to attract and retain new shooters at the National Match. Recognizing that unless and until a person is an accomplished Black Powder Target Rifle Competitor they may not fully understand the basic needs of today's competitor; the current active competitors have compiled this recommendation of minimum requirements for policy and rule implementation for the NRA competitions division and by the Black Powder Committee based on over 15 individual years of consecutive competition experience and participation at Raton, New Mexico. We are doing this because we have compelling evidence that this same information we are sending to the Black Powder Committee through Competitions Division is not reaching the committee and is being intentionally kept from the Black Powder Committee by NRA Competitions Division. The following is a synopsis of what we suspect you have not heard and need to know.
 

THE RIFLE RANGE
 
This range recommendation is a minimum general requirement and not specific for any location. These recommendations take into account the special needs found when competing with historical arms from the nineteenth century to aid in a fair and safe competition based on actual match experience while conducting the National Matches.
 
#1.- The range must be a dedicated firing range not subject to unscheduled closure. This
requirement specifically precludes the use of most military owned and or controlled rifle ranges.
 
#2.- The range must face as close to true North as possible, recognizing that several ranges are as much as, but not more than, ten degrees West or East of magnetic to True North and would meet the minimum requirement of facing True North. Ranges that basically face East, West or South are unsuitable. Locations in historic Tornado Alleys or Hurricane zones are unsuitable during the times of year when such storms are prevalent.
 
#3.- The range must have developed firing points at 200, 300, 500, 600, 800, 900 & 1,000 yards.
 
#4.- The range must have an earthen backstop that extends, (visually to the shooter), above the top of every target from each firing point on the range from each distance fired from any approved firing position at the corresponding numbered firing point for that numbered target.
The backstop must be of a material and in a condition that facilitates the target scorer in the pits to visually see the impact of the bullet fired at the target they are pulling and scoring easily, and, high enough to retain the bullet within the delineated firing range. An impact backstop that is in the trees, brush or high weeds during sighting or record fire is unsuitable as is a target face or back stop in the shade from direct sunlight. (sunlight behind the target/back stop)
 
The competitor must be able to see under the target to the earthen backstop from their assigned firing point from the prone position at each distance so that the spotting and value markers are clearly visible from the competitors assigned firing position with the telescope aided eye wherever the bullet strike is spotted. This clearance is also needed to facilitate accurate sighting with metallic aperture sights commonly used in this shooting discipline as well as providing an unobstructed path for the bullet to the entire target face.
 
The covering lip of the pit between the shooter and target puller must be high enough to ensure that a bullet in true flight from cal .38-.45 Black Powder Target Cartridge Rifle meeting current minimum weight and velocity parameters established by the Whittington Center cannot strike the pit scoring person assigned to that target on the bullet's final downward trajectory at the target from the 1,000 yard line when the target is in the fully up position.
 
No part of the target frame or target holder may be constructed of any hard material other than wood, cardboard, canvas cloth, staples and nails. No part of the target mechanism shall be made of any material other than wood that could be struck by a Black Powder Target Cartridge Rifle meeting current minimum weight of caliber .38-.45 and velocity parameters on the bullet's final downward trajectory at the target from the 1,000 yard line as established currently by the Whittington Center.
 
#5.- Target spacing for Long Range targets and Mid Range targets, (200-1,000 yards), have been configured for many years so that there is a hospital target at the left end and right end of each target bank and an empty target holder between the hospital and record target as well as an empty target space between each record target. (Every other target holder is empty.) With a maximum two relays of two shooters each firing on one record target for each distance fired between pit or line changes. (eg: a bank of target holders to accommodate 12 shooters would have 9 target holders having 3 record targets, 4 empty holders and 2 hospital targets.) The reason for configuring the targets in this manner is to spread out the shooters, spotters and scorers at the firing line so that they do not interfere with each other and the Chief Line Officer can see them more clearly should they need to get or require his attention.  The line can become quite smoke obscured once the commence fire command has been given.  It has been a practice to have both shooters on a firing point set up their mats and crossed sticks during the preparation period.  The coach/spotter then takes their position on a stool or chair and the scorer usually sits in such a location as not to interfere with the pair he is scoring for or the pairs to either side for both mid-range and long range.  This every other target spacing also allows for the competitors automobiles to be parked directly behind the firing line and prevent traffic congestion.  This spacing is even more advantageous when firing long range to minimize unintentional hits on a target to either side of the intended target due to the high trajectory of these vintage rifles.  Twenty minutes of windage is not an unusual adjustment for the 1,000 yard distance and equates into approximately twenty feet of lateral deflection by wind.  Alternating targets in this manner is more time efficient, minimizes crossfires
and unintentional hits on an adjacent target.

These are rifles from the nineteenth century firing large, heavy lead bullets and propelled by black powder. I have personally, in one match, replaced the wooden upright target holder three times during record fire using materials and targets and holders taken from the hospital target. These heavy lead bullets have a tendency not only penetrate the wooden holders but shatter them into large pieces and splinters which requires the every other target spacing to minimize the possibility that the target pullers in the pits are not struck by flying wood splinters. Having the hospital targets available on the target line minimizes interruptions to record fire during the match when it is necessary to repair or replace a firing points target.
 
The range must be able to accommodate a minimum of eighty (80) competitors each day of record fire and the match bulletin must state the maximum number of shooters that the range is able to accommodate on match day for the current year National Match and encourage, not require, early entry 45 days prior to the match.
 
The Black Powder Competitor must be allowed to transport their equipment from firing line to firing line (normally for at least two competitors per vehicle) with their equipment by vehicle and have the ability to park that vehicle close to and directly behind their assigned firing point to facilitate efficient movement from firing line to firing line and pits to firing line and firing line to pits. The primary reason for this accommodation is the advanced years of a large percentage of the competitors, (60-90), and the amount of equipment they need immediate access to in order to successfully and safely compete in this sport.
 

SCHEDULING OF THE NATIONAL MATCHES
 
#1.- The actual dates for the National Matches shall be scheduled as far in advance as possible while adhering to the reservation policies of the host range. The current policy at The Whittington Center is current year plus two years which indicates that as of January 1 of each year the match can and shall be reserved and scheduled three years out under this policy.
 
Active classified competitors and Competitions Division Staff years ago agreed that the only
suitable time of year to hold the National Matches at the Whittington Center was the
month of September with the second week being most desirable and the third week if the second week was not available. There was also universal agreement that June through August is too hot because of the nature of how these matches are conducted, in the open at ground level, and the average age category of the shooters and staff (60-90). The heat index at barrel level from the prone position is always higher than the ambient air temperature.
A high heat index is too hot regardless of the geographic location.
 
Any scheduled National Championship shall not be canceled or postponed for lack of
registered or attending competitors, estimated or otherwise, or for any reason of convenience.
Cancellation such as an imminent hurricane striking the match site shall result in a rescheduling within thirty days at no additional match fees should the matches be scheduled in a hurricane zone such as the east coast of the United States or in a traditional tornado alley zone. This is a critically important concept.
 
The actual scheduled dates of the following year National Matches in September shall be
announced in writing in the Match Bulletin for the current year National Match and by posting
at the current year National Match score posting area and made a part of the match results
bulletin of that current year and distributed to each firing member that attended and fired in that current year match within 60 days of the completion of that current year National Championship Match by U.S. Mail.
 
Entry materials shall be mailed to each competitor that entered or participated in the National
Matches any of the three years prior to the current year National Match in January the year the next National Match is scheduled to take place. Providing such entry materials to these
competitors by U.S. Mail shall be the preferred method of competitor notification and could
include a dollar incentive for the competitor to submit their registration 45 days prior to the
National Match and to levy an additional fee for tardy registrations. Another critical element.

VOLUNTEER STAFF

Volunteer Range Staff are indispensable to match success. In particular, the target team needs to be at the match location approximately four weeks prior to the match to construct and repair targets for the match. The targets are six foot square cardboard, mounted on 1x4 wood frames. There needs to be two on the target repair team. Add one to the target team to make three for pit duty during record fire, one experienced Chief Line Officer and two Assistant Line Officers to supervise the firing line, a statistical officer and a Match Director who should be a current Match Director at their home range but by all means absolutely must have significant Black Powder Target Rifle experience as a Match Director and Competitor. Volunteer staff must be recruited and retained at least one year prior to the match to which they will be assigned and if the match is to be held at the Whittington Center housing on the center reserved for them in October of the year prior to the match when the contract is returned to the Whittington Center by NRA Competitions Division reserving the range.

The names of the protest committee members comprised of competitors present at the match shall be posted on the scoreboard at the match prior to the commencement of record fire.
 
ENSURE CONTINUITY OF IRONMAN MATCH RECOGNITION
 
The established practice of combining the aggregate scores fired at the National Match at Raton, New Mexico, resulted in the IRONMAN Match. The IRONMAN Match was originated and instituted by the National Rifle Association awarding a shooters T-shirt with the current year and Black Powder Target Rifle logo to each competitor that fired the aggregate matches in mid-range and long range combined at the current year National Match with special recognition at the award ceremony of the top three shooters and announcing their aggregate scores. It is a long standing sentiment of many National Championship competitors that winning the IRONMAN match is more an indication of who is the best Black Powder Target Rifleman in the United States than any one of the other three matches. However, the decision to make it the premier match in terms of the awards ceremony will likely require a full census of the active competitors at a future National Match or written replies to a direct survey of competitors that participate in the National Match for three consecutive years prior to the survey. It is the view of the competitors that shooters that do not participate in the National Matches are not qualified to render an informed opinion on this matter and should not vote or be canvassed.
 
This Match was established by then NRA Competitions Division Staffer and Match Director
George Harris and discontinued without notice to the competitors in 2014 and against the
express wishes of the competitors in 2015. This action is viewed as a direct and intentional antagonistic affront to the Black Powder Target Rifle Competitors by the current NRA Competitions Division.
 
Making the IRONMAN Match an official competition complete with keeping of National Records is requested as well as the awards ceremony for the IRONMAN Match being the final ceremony of the National Matches is appropriate. Slightly modifying the course of fire for the prone match to the already recognized format of 300, 500 & 600 yards will better challenge the competitors, add prestige to the match and encourage increased participation has been suggested and discussed at the 2015 National Matches and is at least worthy of a trial run. It is also advisable to give a medal of recognition to the top shooter in each class that shoots all six matches for their persistence and excellence in competition.
 
The IRONMAN Match with commemorating logo shooters T-shirt should be reinstated for each succeeding National Match beginning in 2016 as an encouragement to shoot all three aggregate matches at the National Championship BPTR Matches and made a mandatory traditional recognition match by the Black Powder Committee for all future National Championship BPTR matches. The T-shirt shall be dated for the current year the recognized competition took place.
 
 
PROPOSED RENAMING THE IRONMAN MATCH
 
Dan Theodore, a cheerful friend to all and tireless scientific experimenter par excellence, was
an avid Black Powder Target Rifle Competitor, fervent advocate for the second amendment, top tier tri-athlete, accomplished silicon valley process engineer and gifted designer of improvements in Black Powder Target Rifle chamber design, bullet design and bullet lube testing and development which he shared selflessly with whomever requested his advice and knowledge.
 
In the late spring of 2015 Dan Theodore died tragically in a house fire at his home in Mountain
View California. Dan was a strong advocate for the IRONMAN Match and concept for Black
Powder Target Rifle Matches at the National Championships and for Regional and State level
Black Powder Target Rifle Matches nationwide that included aggregate scores of more than one Black Powder Target Rifle discipline at the individual match directors discretion for that
location.
 
A host of competitors at the 2015 Black Powder Target Rifle Championships tasked me to make a proposal to commemorate Dan Theodore as a pioneer in modern BPTR competition a
number of which agreed that permanently incorporating his name in the IRONMAN Match by
adding his name to the logo of the IRONMAN shooters T-shirt would be appropriate and
desirable. The idea of including a print of his trademark designed "Money" bullet on the shooters T-shirt was also suggested and hereby forwarded for Committee consideration.

Simply adding Dan's name and bullet design on the shooters T-shirt would not add any significant expense or effort to the NRA.
 
Be advised that there is also discussion about competitors commissioning a standing trophy to remain with the NRA and a laser engraved plaque of the trophy awarded to each member of the team that wins the IRONMAN Match without cost to the NRA. This would be similar to the current Shaffer Trophy that should have been awarded to the winner of the Mid-range Position Match per NRA Rules at the 2015 National Matches and was not.
 





TOLLOFSON CLASS 

The history of the Tollofson Rifle is part of the lore and legend of the NRA Black Powder Target Rifle story. The idea of a Tollofson Class to be adopted by the Black Powder Committee for NRA competition was proposed in 2009 and by petition with over 50 competitor signatures and requesting letter that was submitted to the Black Powder Committee for a Tollofson Class which was approved October 2009. The Tollofson Class was recognized at the BPTR National Championships in 2010, 2011 & 2012. Tollofson Classes were also recognized at NRA Regional Matches at Byers, Colorado and Phoenix, Arizona. Records were set and match directors submitted the information to NRA Competitions Division who refused to recognize the Tollofson Class because it has never been approved by the NRA for recognition of national records. This was announced and confirmed by Barry Ranney at the competitors meeting September 23, 2015, at the National BPTR Matches at Raton, New Mexico.

Certainly, the time to have brought the detail of records and record keeping to the attention of the Black Powder Committee by Competitions Division was at the October 2009 meeting when the class was authorized and approved. The competitors herein ask the Black Powder Committee to take such actions as to complete the intent of the competitors in asking for the Tollofson Class and the intent of the Black Powder Committee at approving the Tollofson Class for NRA record keeping and recognition of record fire commensurate with records for BPTR Position, Prone and Long Range with the full recognition other classes are accorded.

PROPOSAL FOR TRIAL PERIOD OF NEW NRA SANCTIONED MATCH
 
The sanctioning body of the Dominion of Canada Rifle Association conducts the Wilf Black Match each year at their National Matches in August. Basically the Wilf Black Match commemorates the accomplishments of an early Canadian soldier. It is fired with the early black powder cartridge rifles utilized by the Canadian military & others during the nineteenth century. It is comprised of ten shots at 200 yards on their 200 yard target for score under time restrictions. It is basically a fun match and open to any registered competitor.
 
The United States has a seldom recognized group of historic military soldiers that served under extremely harsh conditions in the settling of the American Frontier that would be a suitable corollary for the American Black Powder Target Rifle Matches to include the National Matches.
 
The purpose would be to recognize the Buffalo Soldiers of the United States Army that served in the settling of America and used the American Military Black Powder Cartridge Arms of U.S. issue in their time period. The match would simply be called “The Buffalo Soldier Match”.
 
Rifles such as the issued U.S. Sharps Military Rifle and Carbine, U.S. Trapdoor Springfield Rifle and Carbine and Rolling Block Rifle and Carbine, to include current faithful and modern replica reproductions, in period center fire black powder cartridge calibers would be the rifles and calibers allowed for entry in this match using black powder only and lead or lead alloy bullets. A match director may at their discretion divide the categories between rifle and carbine shooters as separate matches fired at the same time.
 
The course of fire would be unlimited sighters and ten shots at 200 yards for record in 23 minutes from any approved current mid-range rifle position utilizing one pit puller and one line scorer/coach per shooter. The local public should be invited to sign up to participate at least one month in advance for a nominal fee to cover host range costs remitted at least one week in advance non-refundable to the match director and supply their own rifle and ammunition which will be certified as appropriate the day of the match and prior to firing the match at their own risk.
 
The sole purpose of The Buffalo Soldier Match would be to recognize their service to America with a match that is meaningful, fun, introductory to the sport, and open to all comers.

AWARDS, AWARDS CEREMONIES AND DRAWING DOOR PRIZES

There are several types of awards and accomplishments that are difficult to anticipate and must be transferred to the winning competitor after the conclusion of match fire. Most important among these are changes in classification and national records.

When a competitor fires scores that 'require' by NRA Rules that they be elevated from one classification to another that competitor shall receive the new classification card in the mail within 60 calendar days after the match in which the qualifying score was fired.

Competitors that equal or exceed existing national records shall receive their National Record award certificate in the mail within 60 calendar days of the conclusion of the match in which that score was fired. Some Black Powder Target Rifle Competitors have been waiting years to receive their national record certificates and or classification cards. That is unacceptable.

Competitions Division Head Dennis Willing first attended the Black Powder Target Rifle Championships at Raton, New Mexico, in September of 2012. At that match he observed prize tables piled high with drawing prizes for the assembled competitors and the competitor drawing can was cycled through over three times before all prizes had been awarded. Dennis Willing participated in these ceremonies and prize drawings. That mountain of prizes was the work of two volunteer competitors and served to add tremendous competitor favorability to the match.

Barry Ranney became Match Director in 2013 and in 2015 the prize table was so diminished as to be embarrassing. Barry Ranney directed two volunteers in 2015 to draw the names to distribute the meager number of prizes to the competitors. This was totally unnecessary as volunteer competitors could have done much better if given the opportunity and support of Competitions Division to solicit prize donations a year in advance as has been done in the past.

THE PROBLEM/EXAMPLE REMEDIES

First, the competitors have come to rely on passing information to the Black Powder Committee through Competitions Division representatives, as in competitors meetings at the National Championships, in this case Greg Connors and Barry Ranney, rather than directly to the Chairman and Vice Chairman of the Black Powder Committee. This has worked against the best interests of the competitor. Why would Competitions Division pass on derogatory information that casts them in a poor light or create more work for them? Moreover, a complete and concise report of and minutes of the previous year Black Powder Committee meeting and copies of letters to the committee by the competitors must be available to the competitors at the following year National Championship and as soon as possible on line. We must have transparency, accurate and permanent records.

Second, the voting members of the NRA increasingly are voting for NRA Board Members that have virtually no competitive experience and have to rely on what Competitions Division tells them in committee. When there is no active Black Powder Target Rifle competitor advising the committee in person or the wider competitor community is not directly advising the Committee Chairmen and the Chief of NRA Operations directly they only know what Greg Connors, Barry Ranney and Dennis Willing tells them which has had tragic effects. A committee of three competitors appointed by the competitors at the current year National Match shall be appointed to report on the commentary from the competitors to committee staff in writing withing 15 calendar days after the conclusion of the National Match with copy to NRA Chief of Operations.


CONCLUSION/SOLUTION

On Pages 2, 3 & 4 of Issue #88, Winter 2014, of the Black Powder Cartridge News Magazine resides the story of what was the final tipping point that motivated the competitors to aggressively bring their plight to the leadership of the National Rifle Association. The article is clear, factual and complete and you have been provided copies of the magazine.

The Black Powder Target Rifle Competitors have lost trust in Dennis Willing, Greg Connors and Barry Ranney of the NRA Competitions Division based on their demonstrated behavior and sincerely believe that they cannot be rehabilitated.Their actions clearly contravene the October 2013 Resolution from the NRA Board of Directors and demonstrate their utter disdain for the Board of Directors, the Black Powder Committee and the competitors. NRA Management must move swiftly to place persons of strong personal character and enthusiasm at producing a wonderful competitive experience commensurate with the finest traditions of the NRA in Competitions Division and replace those that have chosen to destroy competitor confidence.

It is also clear that the Board of Directors of the National Rifle Association must engage in some serious introspection as they are not only responsible to ensure that travesties like this do not occur they are also responsible for them occurring by not providing common sense oversight of the Black Powder Target Matches and obtaining reliable information from the competitors concerning the performance of Competitions Division and the needs of the active competitor to pass on to management.

The Black Powder Committee is going to have to find a reliable means of hearing the truth directly from the competitors that actually shoot in the National Matches and the Match Directors nationwide that conduct Black Powder Target Rifle Matches without that information first being filtered or concealed. This one modification would likely have prevented a whole lot of heartache and dissension years ago.

As it stands now, serious intervention is needed to assure the competitors and match directors that the travesties that have been visited upon them by the recent Competitions Staff have ceased and a new day has dawned and encourage them to renew their efforts and bring their needs directly to the Chairman and Vice Chairman of the Black Powder Committee and the Chief of Operations of the NRA. They deserve no less and should expect no less.

Such an opportunity presently exists on the horizon. In 2008 NRA announced and conducted try outs for Team USA, the United States Black Powder Cartridge Rifle Team, at Raton, New Mexico for an International Match the following year of the tryouts at Raton, New Mexico. In 2009 the try outs were held and the Team was selected. At the last minute NRA Competitions Division Head, Mike Krei, canceled the match with no explanation or reason given to Team USA Members. That was a huge disappointment and has become a lasting bone of contention with the competitors.

The Dominion of Canada Rifle Association is conducting an International Match at their home range in Canada, tentatively August 15-19, 2018. The competition will be fired from 800, 900 & 1,000 (approximately) yards which conforms to the course of fire for our current National Championship Long Range Matches. Should the NRA announce that the 2016 NRA National Long Range Matches at Raton, New Mexico, will be practice for the Team USA tryouts to be held in 2017 at the National Matches at Raton, New Mexico, for Team USA selection and that the NRA will sponsor Team USA members to the Canadian International Match in 2018 it would provide a strong statement of good faith in restoring competitor confidence in the NRA and provide a most positive image to the world of America's National Rifle Association in accordance with Article II of the NRA by-laws. This is an opportunity that must receive immediate serious consideration and swift action for it to take place in a timely fashion.


For the Black Powder Target Rifle Competitors

Zack Taylor, NRA Life Member
PO Box 4012
Rio Rico, Arizona 85648-4012
520-281-7148
[/quote]
A wise man can always be found alone. A weak man can always be found in a crowd.
Reply
01-12-2016, 02:04 PM,
#2
RE: BPTR shooters NRA presentation
Dear Don,

Been waitin to hear the responses here. Now I haven't ever been an NRA member, but I've never been a registered voter either. Not really a joiner. I understand that a lotta the competitions are NRA sponsored and that several might even require membership, wh/ is fine by me. Have also been reading that the vast majority of gun owners are not NRA members, and that the majority of NRA members are not in agreement w/ LaPierre's/the NRA's approach to any number of issues. Not posting here to limit myself nor any discussion to policies or other airy abstractions, but to say that your post is a simple reminder that behind every organization and its decisions is a person/are people, and it's always the people that I pay attention to, not the organization and certainly not any propaganda. Forgive me if I look at a politician and ask, "Would I let them walk my dog? Spend an afternoon w/ my kids?" So thanks for your explication here...itsa damn sight more honest and refreshing, whatever the outcome, than is all the BS that normally gets bandied about around almost any issue. I hope that the shooters and their competitions fully take the matter into their own hands (wh/ they seem to have been doing anyway) and be done w/ the bootstrapped reliance upon the perception of any outside "official sanction." Besides, where's the added value of the NRA in any of this? If I "just don't get it," you're absolutely right, and God help me if I ever did. Sometimes I regret learnin what I did manage to learn in law school, and in life, but only when I'm at my most cynical. Cheers, Doug
Reply
01-12-2016, 08:13 PM,
#3
RE: BPTR shooters NRA presentation
BPTR will be gone after this year. They will probably continue the national match at Ridgeway, and it will likely continue with very poor attendance and most likely very little to no attendance by shooters from west of the DesMoines river.
Unless there's a major shake up in Competitions Dept.
A wise man can always be found alone. A weak man can always be found in a crowd.
Reply
01-12-2016, 08:13 PM,
#4
RE: BPTR shooters NRA presentation
Thanks for Posting that Don.
Reply
01-19-2016, 05:36 AM,
#5
RE: BPTR shooters NRA presentation
Don,
Thanks for posting all that info. Makes a lot of sense. I like the Buffalo Soldier Match. That is a great idea on a lot of levels. Well thought out, well done.
Fogman01
Reply
01-19-2016, 11:26 AM,
#6
RE: BPTR shooters NRA presentation
With the big turn of events, with the announcement that Jim Kidwell along with others will be running the Nationals at Raton on behalf of the NRA, I suspect we'll see bigger attendance numbers in the future. I also suspect this two nationals nonsense is only a bad idea that never takes place.
A wise man can always be found alone. A weak man can always be found in a crowd.
Reply
06-01-2017, 09:27 AM,
#7
RE: BPTR shooters NRA presentation
Just wondering about how the new head of NRA competitions will affect the things that were addressed in the original post?
A wise man can always be found alone. A weak man can always be found in a crowd.
Reply
06-01-2017, 12:59 PM,
#8
RE: BPTR shooters NRA presentation
Back in the 1960s the NRA ask for donations to break ground in NM. Many folks replied to what today is a pretty darn nice shootin' place. Over the years, many improvements have come along making it a top notch facility, with shooters and match directors from all around the country, all taking their turn to make it better.

My thanks to a great group of shooters and gun owners. I have been there several times and plan to visit again soon.

Old Jim
That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it!
Reply
06-01-2017, 08:02 PM,
#9
RE: BPTR shooters NRA presentation
I have a membership at the W/C and it is a top shooting facility. In the winter the camp grounds have plenty room and the ranges are what seems like just for your use. Nobody is there besides me. Some day I might head west for the Nationals. Almost went last year but was turned off by conversations on the Shiloh forum.
I might swing over this year if Carol gets healed well enough that she can take the trip.....will see.
The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.
Reply
06-04-2017, 09:56 AM,
#10
RE: BPTR shooters NRA presentation
I have a Sharps I could use at a Tollofson Class match and a carbine I could use in a Buffalo Soldier match. I would love to shoot them in competition. I just shot my first local silhouette match and I am now addicted to it. A couple of matches where I could use my other guns would be really great. I think we would draw a lot of new BPCR shooters into the sport with the 200 yard Buffalo Soldier match because it would be fun, fast, and easier for most people to prepare for. There are more 200 yard ranges around than 500 -1000 yard places to shoot. Plus I think people with "non-regulation" rifles would love a chance to shoot them in competition - I know I would love to shoot my bull barrel Shiloh in competition.
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