.44-77 and paper patch?

[J.B.]

Watching this with interest and really couldnt add to whats already been supplied up until now. The Shiloh chambering is cut with a .078" rim I was informed and having tried three different spec'd RMC batches and two or more of the JBA ( oh I wish I'd bought more now ! ) I'd say cases with .076/.077 rims would be almost ideal. I even ordered some so spec'd from RMC and the fit was like a glove. My first batch of JBA brass was between .071 -.074" and anywhere in between. All chambered without issue and of course once fireformed.. the problem ..if there is one.. is virtually gone. My second order of JBA was modified through BACo with a rim stamp of some description which 'swaged' out the rim centre a little to bring up the thickness closer to a consistent .075/.076" . Its difficult to measure as the increase is in the body of the rim around the primer ( similar to the Russian case ) but it is there. Personally... I had no problem with either batch but there are bigger variations out there apparently. I did manage to get my paws on one example of BACo's 50/110 based... 44/77 cases and while there was a little 'rubbing' of the back face of the rim, it did chamber. The raised portion so little that I would expect a figure 8 or two over some fine paper would rectify that issue. The case worked fine...and I do believe the bullet even went somewhere near the target... but then that wasnt the fault of the case ! About the only disappointment I had wth the cases at hand...is that all bar the RMC brass came in under length. Not by much I'll grant you but usually in the 2.235 - 2.245 range. The RMC I ordered longer and trimmed back. The first time I fired mine... I felt like I'd loaded a 44/77 and extracted a 44/77 'improved'. The shoulder moves forward...or appears to with a sharper shoulder and slight increase in capacity. Boy do I love this cartridge. I doubt you'll be disappointed.

[Kurt]

Jim.
I can put up with cold fingers even when I had them froze and they turned brown. but when the eye lashes freeze shut I call it quits

Jim I went through several Jamison cases for my .44-77 and the .44-90 bn. The 77 rims run .074" and they let the breach close without resistance . I have some old Bell .44 basic I cut down and formed for the .44-77 and those cases had a rim thickness of .082" plus and had to turn the head thickness down to .075" and the breach block drags over the face, zero head space!! This worked out just fine for using pistol primers with just a little work uniforming the primer pockets.
The .44-90 BN head thickness runs .078".
As near as I can measure the head space runs .0006" in the .44-77 when I turned down the case heads cleaning the head stamp off some cases.

[beltfed]

Jim,
Re. the head("rim") space problem.
If you have a goodly amount of whatever brass lot you would like to use,
you could ask Kirk to chamber/headspace FOR that brass.
Send him several samples of the lot which are at the thickest rims and have him
headspace snugly on those pieces of brass as the headspace "gauges"
Been there done that more than once. It works out well.
beltfed/arnie

[Distant Thunder]

There is certainly a lot of good info that has come to light in this thread. My thanks to all who have responded.

Arnie, If I could find 200-300 pcs of good quality .44-77 brass I would do just as you say. I don't think it's out there unless I'm willing to pay $7.51 ea., which I am NOT!
I'll just let Kirk cut the chamber to Shiloh's standard and get brass to fit. When I find the right source I'll get enough brass to last a good long time.

J.B., Thank you for your input, very helpful.

[Kurt]

That Shiloh standard chamber will be alright as it is Jim. I have no complaints with the way mine shoots.

[J.B.]

That Shiloh standard chamber will be alright as it is Jim. I have no complaints with the way mine shoots.

.. Very true Kurt. I've no complaints with the way mine shoots... but I have issues with the way I shoot mine

[Distant Thunder]

Kurt,

I figure it will be just like my .45-90 Shiloh and that rifle handled everything I put thru it very well form grease groove bullets to the same bore diameter paper patch bullet I now shoot in my Hepburn with the Danielson paper patch chamber. That pp bullet has won more matches for me than I can count! I should have stopped looking for a better bullet back in 2009, there ain't one. When I make the elliptical for this .44 it will be the same bullet, just scaled to be a .44 and with the 2-diameter base.

I am confident in my choice.

Kurt, are you going to Harris next weekend? If so, I'll see you there and we can talk some then.

[Kurt]

Yes, I'm loaded with several test rounds for the new 77 Axtell .45-100. I hope there will be enough time on Friday to shoot 20 test rounds, 5 each so I can use the box with the best 5 for the match. Also this rifle is not tapped for a scope so I hope I can see the number boards and see the target so I don't cross fire.
I have shot 10 test loads at 200 so far that show promise at 1.5 MOA but this don't mean it will do it at 1K.

[Distant Thunder]

Kurt,

I'd have to say I don't recall ever having a load that shot well at 200 yards ( 2 MOA or better) that didn't at least do respectable at 1000. I consider 100 yards groups to be almost worthless for 1000 yard shooting.

We'll talk more at Harris!

[Distant Thunder]

Finally had a few minutes to post these.

One is an elliptical designed along the lines of what I've laid out here in this post. It looks just a bit blunt to me and I may sharpen that up, or not. Either way it would make an excellent long range bullet in my .44-77.

   

The other is more along the lines of the ODG designs and is really just a scaled up version of my very successful .40 caliber bullet. I really like this design it seems to be very easy to get to shoot well in the rifles I've tried it in and my first mold for this .44-77 will be this design. This would be a mid range and silhouette bullet.

   

Both are the 2-diameter design for PPB and with adjustments in base band length and the 2 diameters should work well in any .44 caliber with a 17-twist. !9-twist barrels might need to adjust the OAL to suit.